SUISEKI.......my first attempts

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SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  level320 on Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:31 am

hi folks,

this is my first post here, so maybe it is a good opportunity to introduce my first suiseki (they are hopefully..?).
normally i do bonsai since a couple of years, and until a year ago i did not actually care for suiseki......stones, what a nonsense !
at our hollidays in india i realized that some stones are really nice, so i took a few with me, small ones, because it happens at the end of our trip, and we were already overloaded. at home i studied a few books and a further www investigation showed me, would be much nicer
if properly presented. this winter finally, i carved my first daiza....it was/is a very enjoyable work, when you see/feel how the wood plank
fits more and more, the surface becomes smooth...in one word i liked it. in the meantime 3 of them are done.
please keep in mind, a beginners work is presented to you......any kind of suggestion/critics is welcome.
thanks for your time and patience

best regards
ladi




the first one, uncut, ca. 4"x3"x4" (stone only), cherrywood, but made with even # of feets, therefore a new one is reqd.....maybe someone a suggestion ?


second one,uncut, ca. 5"x3"x2" (stone only), european walnut, a birthday present for my wife....in my humble opinion the best one of the three, unfortunantly the worst picture, it does not really show the quality of the stone.


third one,uncut, 5"x3"x7" (stone only), swiss-pear, actually a local stone from my area here in Tirol, Austria.......i expected more, when starting the daiza,but maybe is only the design of the daiza wrong, or i should cut the stone.......will be very glad for some suggestions!

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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  ogie on Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:46 am

Hi Ladi,
For a beginner your 3stones are very good. The Daiza is ok but i would like to see the feet not so much stretch out, maybe more vertical than angular,but i'm sure as you come along you'll perfect it. Welcome to the crazy world of suiseki Smile
Search around in the forum and you will see what you like in stones,to each its own taste,bty i like the first one BLACK STONE. Thanks for sharing

Regards,
Alex/Ogie

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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  Guest on Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:58 am

Hi Ladi

Welcome to this forum, I hope you will enjoy it.

This is very nice stones, and your daizas is very nice too...maybe I would prefer the legs slightly shorter.

The black stone and daiza is very nice. I would prefer if the daiza was dyed dark brown.

The next stone looks like tit is usefull for suiban, and a good yoseki a coupple of years in the garden, will age the stone, and make the collour even better. the daiza collour is nice.

Dont cut the last stone!! I would sink the stone further dawn in the daiza, and leave out the wide rim.

Kind regards Yvonne

Guest
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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:25 pm

I was taught that the feet should be under the weight of the stone. For example in your first stone, the single foot in the front should be a little to the left.
In the other stones the two evenly spaced feet in front should be one, maybe, larger foot under the weight.

Billy M. Rhodes
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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  vlado on Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:55 pm

Hi Ladi
...you are not a beginner, i think. Pretty, precise work.
The second stone (daiza) is very well done, I prefer uncut stones, with matt rough surface.
Thanks for sharing.

Have a nice day.
vlado

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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  level320 on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:38 pm

hi everybody,

thanks a lot for your kind replies, i appreciate that very much...it encourages me to proceed further Very Happy
some more stones i have already, but i have to organize some different kinds of wood.... looking at the net i was
amazed which beautiful colours and pattern you can find on some kinds.

@ ogie
anyway i have to make a new daiza for the first stone, because the number of feets should be uneven, and i
made 4 instead of 3 or 5. also the design of the first was redone, but i dont have really an idea how the new one should look like,
as yvonne mentioned already, it will be a darker wood, but the rest hmmm....?

@yvonne
yoseki...you mean keeping the stones outside.... should that be in full sun or shadow ? rain/moisture is also reqd. ?
i ask because i have several stones here from my area which look nice when wet, but very disappointing when dry.
the black stone is my best concerning surface, smoothness and colour ( very dark green with black and smooth as baby skin).
for the last stone i would need to make a new daiza, if i wish to put it deeper, because the stone looks actually like a egg on the bottom
side, the daiza is at the bottom only 4 mm thick (for US ca. 1/8"), thats the only reason why the daiza is so thick......unfortunatelly.
but probably i will give that stone away, for a present ....

@ billy
i tried to consider that while carving.... but for shure i have to learn a lot more

@ vlado
indeed i am a beginner....the second is also my favorite daiza.

thanks again to everyone, further comments are welcome.....

lg
ladi




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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  Chris Cochrane on Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:42 pm

Thanks for your introduction, Ladi. Humility is a great strength & encourages warm reception. You are skilled in creating a positive impression... :-)

Is the bonsai in your avatar developed by you? If so, IBC is doubly blessed.

_________________
... visit the U.S. National Bonsai & Penjing Museum, Washington DC USA-- http://www.bonsai-nbf.com

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no pennies for my thoughts

Post  stonener on Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:13 am

Welcome Ladi
I too am a beginner, with much yet to learn and an expert on nothing.
but with all the help on this forum! as you can see, you also will do fine.
1st daiza, no rules that i know of for number of feet, only should be placed at uneven distances and always on ends.
on this one when you remove finish, try dipping the whole daiza in stain for 24hrs to create dark even color.
3rd daiza is not to thick, rule of 6th or 7th the height of the stone is perfect, taller stone=deeper daiza.
as a beginner don't be in a hurry to give away your first try's, they will later become your guide lines.
your work shows good skill level and patients, carefully executed design thoughts with positive results.
i agree with points mentioned by others as well, all aboard for a real good time... Basketball
OH BY THE WAY DON'T CUT!, only if absolutely necessary

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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  Guest on Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:18 am

Hi Ladi

In this topic you can read important information about yoseki " Martin Pauli writes on Yoseki - Caring for Stones"
You can also read the topic, that made Martin Pouli react.

Many confusing and missunderstood things had been said about this subject on IBC...
Martin Pouli make sense.

About the legs on daizas....I have a nice stylish mountainstone...to give this stone 3 or 5 legs, would be clearly wrong. this stone want 4 Smile....Where did you hear about the uneven number, it is new to me.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  level320 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:48 am

hi everyone,

@chris c.
thanks for your nice words (and the message) Very Happy.
the bonsai in my avatar is one out of my collection, but to say developed be me, would be too much.
i already bought it as good material, and of course developed further with the help of my teacher Othmar Auer from Italy.
it`s a japanese red pine, shohin size.

@ stonerer
you are right, this is a very nice forum, people from everywhere, all with the same goal.....
the 3rd i will give away, but it will end up very near, as a present for my oldest friend,
such dear old friends deserve that....

@yvonne
i have to find that article about aging stones......my "bible" the SUISEKI book of Willi Benz
says uneven numbers of feet.
but i called another friend of mine, which has several suisekis, to count the feet on his daiza.....
and she told me that several of her daiza have also 4 feet........hmmmm, again something new

kind regards
ladi


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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  peterbrod on Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:00 pm

sunny

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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  Guest on Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:24 pm

Hi Peterbrod...you are the best Smile

This is a really nice daiza....Now the stone looks like a mountain.
The old daiza looks wobbly, compared to this.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  dick benbow on Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:11 pm

it always "tickles me" (makes me happy) when a non stone person suddenly "sees" the light. Smile

And tho your daiza building designs need a few helpful corrections, i was really impressed with your initial effort.
I'd be too embassed to show my first attempts Smile

I love shohin and aka matsu, so you'll have to post some of your bonsai work SOON.

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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  level320 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:01 pm



that is indeed an announcment.......exactly what i was looking for, thanks a lot Peterbrod Very Happy
makes sense and looks good...just have to find the right kind of wood.

Dick, that suiseki thing happend like a flu....you don`t know wherefrom or why, it`s just here and seems to be very resistant.
in spring, when the season starts i will post a few of my trees, i don`t have a big collection, and most of them
are under construction......but a few are presentable, i think.


does anybody knows is that uneven nr. of feets on daiza correct or not ?

best regards
ladi



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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  Guest on Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:19 pm

Hi Ladi

Maybe in the ideal world is uneven feet the best.

But it is more important to follow the lines in the stone....I took a look at my japanese suiseki, after reading your post....The half of them have even, the other half uneven. A older suiseki who used to have an another owner, have even legs, so this is not something new.

But asked if I know- or not know....I do not know.

Kind regards yvonne

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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  Norma on Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:26 pm

Hello ladi,

Good question..number of legs on daiza? First I checked all of my suiseki... only a few have odd numbered legs; where as most are even numbered. Then I checked my favorite references:

"The Japanese Art of STONE APPRECIATION" by Covello and Yoshimura states: "most dai have four or more legs; dai for tall suiseki are an exception, since they often have only three legs".

"SUISEKI" by Rivera : shows a daiza with six feet. Nothing else is said about the number of feet.

"Bonsai- Kusamona- Suiseki by Willi Benz states on page 52: "The number of legs should be uneven, for example 3, 5, 7, 9,...and should not be regularly distributed over the daiza. But in Benz book "The Art of SUISEKI" there was no mention of the number of legs on a daiza.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
Norma

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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  peterbrod on Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:12 pm

determine the number of my foot stone, no prescription Very Happy

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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  level320 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:15 pm


thanks to everybody, that helps a lot...sometimes is a even number better, because easier to achive the foot placement
on some stones.

best regards
ladi

P.S.: even or ODD......i have to remember that, thanks Norma

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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  ogie on Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:09 pm

Hi Ladi,
I wouldn't be too concern about the number of legs for the Dai,for as long as when you visualize it to be good,go for it,Balnce is very important,if the feet gives out balnce to it then thats it.if its few probably make the feet a bit wider but not too high,i always want the feet to highlight the stone more.Hope it doesn't confuse you more.
I'm sure as time sets in you will be happy whatever you've created. As per your taste refernce,we are all but student and learning from each other

Stay well
Alex/Ogie

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friendly advise

Post  stonener on Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:44 am

Ladi use as many feet as are needed, no more no less,
no need to count, even or odd makes no difference!
move past this point and focus on style advise given,
that will make the difference... Basketball

stonener
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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  Guest on Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:43 am

Hi Ladi

If you want to dye your daiza a darker collour. Can you in leather- or shoeshops buy dye.
You just mix one- two-or tree diffrent brown with black, and thin out the collour during mixing, untill you are happy.
Paint it on, and wait 5 minutes, Then you can give a little shoeshine, and polish.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  level320 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:33 pm


Hi Yvonne,

thanks for your suggestion, but i will probably make a new daiza when i receive some new kinds of wood.
i think that the black stone will even be better when sitting in a proper daiza (you said it looks wobbly),
and Peterbrod made a good drawing. making a new daiza for the black stone is easy, because the stone is
really flat on the bottom, the other stones were much more difficult.
also i tried to turn the stone clockwise, and there is possible a new front..... but i have to make new pictures.
i am curios about your opinion......in my eyes there is more drama (better shape and more dynamic).

best regards
ladi

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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  Guest on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:42 pm

Hi Ladi

Look forward to new photos Very Happy

kind regards yvonne

Guest
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...the next one

Post  level320 on Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:51 am

hello everyone,

the next one is done.....i made it as a bithday present for a very dear friend of mine, she liked it very much,
hopefully you too....





best regards
ladi

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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

Post  trantanhung_nt on Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:19 am

Hello Ladi ,
I am agree on conclude of Mr . Peterbrod ( ... " no prescription " )
I think : number of legs , there is footless or not , fashion , forme , chorma of DAIZA ... We are take care for accord ( and balance as OGIE he say ... ) to every stone ( no prescription for all Stone , but have prescription for every stone ) .
I like especially the last stone of you .
Wish you many successes here ( IBC Forum )
Regards ,
Hưng - Trần .

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Re: SUISEKI.......my first attempts

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