A slight change in the front when re potting a Hawthorn

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A slight change in the front when re potting a Hawthorn

Post  Tony on Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:52 pm

I have just repotted my 'Fat Guy' hawthorn into a new pot by Gordon Duffett, there are slight changes. take a look at the two photos below, the first is the original, the send the repot, if you want the full story you can read it Here there is also a video.




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Re: A slight change in the front when re potting a Hawthorn

Post  Poink88 on Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:05 pm

A slight change in angle but so much better and have a lot more movement now. Great move!

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Re: A slight change in the front when re potting a Hawthorn

Post  Jesse on Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:25 pm

I totally agree with Poink88. The slight rotation and change in the planting angle really help accentuate this trees strengths better. As always, great work Tony.

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Re: A slight change in the front when re potting a Hawthorn

Post  Pavel Slovák on Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:44 pm

Very good change position tribe. More movement and elegance.It is not often seen in such a strong tribe. ThumbsUp

Gretings Pavel

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Re: A slight change in the front when re potting a Hawthorn

Post  William N. Valavanis on Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:26 pm

Tony,

I like the new front, but it looks to me like the tree is leaning backwards away from the front. How about a side view?

Bill

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Re: A slight change in the front when re potting a Hawthorn

Post  coh on Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:28 am

William N. Valavanis wrote:Tony,

I like the new front, but it looks to me like the tree is leaning backwards away from the front. How about a side view?

Bill
That was my first reaction as well. Overall, I prefer the original front, because from the new viewpoint the top of the tree appears somewhat "disjointed" from the base. However, I know that photos aren't always a true representation of what you'd see in person...

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A slight change in the front when re potting a Hawthorn

Post  will baddeley on Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:11 am

From memory and when I first saw this tree at Bath, I remember thinking that the tree leant away from the viewer and the best front appeared to be at the right hand front corner. Seems that is What Tony has achieved with the new pot. Very Happy

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Re: A slight change in the front when re potting a Hawthorn

Post  marcus watts on Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:11 am

the 'flat' outline and branch maturity is really nice, but the total composition appears as three steps dissapearing away (like a forest planting) - the really big root and trunk base close to the viewer, the mid-trunk angled quite sharply away, and the top then looks to be even further away, even if it angles forward a little bit.

Pictures do distort trees though and this may not be the real case, (just how it looks when photographed), The tree would be extremely powerful if the crown was nearer to the viewer than the big root/ trunk base, but this repot makes the middle of the tree look much better in a photo, and the pot is excelent.As mentioned a side pic would be good to see the trunkline.

cheers Marcus

Quick edit...having a really good look it is the big root poking straight at us that makes the entire tree look like it falls away from the viewer. If the tree was tilted forward the crown would come to us and the root would disappear underground, but a deeper pot may be needed until the root could be shortened. MW

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Re: A slight change in the front when re potting a Hawthorn

Post  Tony on Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:06 am

marcus watts wrote:Pictures do distort trees though and this may not be the real case, (just how it looks when photographed), The tree would be extremely powerful if the crown was nearer to the viewer than the big root/ trunk base, but this repot makes the middle of the tree look much better in a photo, and the pot is excelent.As mentioned a side pic would be good to see the trunkline.

Marcus, you are correct in almost all cases, I am currently growing the top towards the front of the tree, as with all trees this takes time and moving the 'new' front enables me to do this with confidence that it is correct. I could plant in a deeper pot and 'tilt' the tree forward, this would however... create more problems with the current branch placements

Bill: Here is a side view taken prior to potting in the new pot... also see the difference in the 'depth' (front to back) of the pot.



Here is a photo from Noelanders 2010 in a deeper pot by Isabelia, don't you think that it simply is too massive? although the planting position is correct!


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Tony Tickle.. "that's not your real name is it?"

‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

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Re: A slight change in the front when re potting a Hawthorn

Post  William N. Valavanis on Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:51 pm

Tony,
Thanks for the side view photo.

I played around a bit changing the planting angle, from the side view. Generally, bonsai feel more comfortable if the general trunk movement is towards the front. Also, in my design concept when a straight line is dropped from the crown, the bottom point is in front of the trunk base and more often near the container rim. Of course with this idea the back branch must be lowered and others adjusted, but just wanted to show you what I immediately noticed on your great bonsai.

Just another idea, not having seen the tree, nor what is beneath anything is possible with a quick virtual.

Good job! About high high?

Bill


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Re: A slight change in the front when re potting a Hawthorn

Post  JimLewis on Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:12 pm

Very nice tree!

I like the deep pot. It matches the ruggedness of the tree. The shallow pot seems too light.

But then, I usually feel that people jam the trees into pots that are too small -- just to show that they can.

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Re: A slight change in the front when re potting a Hawthorn

Post  Tony on Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:30 pm

Hi Bill, thanks for your input, the top of the tree and angle has been an ongoing debate for some time.

I discussed with Marco Invernizzi at Noelanders that the tree does need the top more over the front of the pot that's for sure, but there is a balance between maintaining the maximum movement of the trunk, re positioning of existing branches and pot.

Over the years the top will indeed be brought slowly forward, and... as hawthorns are apex dominant that should not be a problem getting the growth... its usually with the apex thickening too much!

For now this tree remains in this position and retains the pot.

Jim, I too like the pot of Isabelia... and when in leaf the tree canopy 'fattens' the image and the pot is fine Smile

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Tony Tickle.. "that's not your real name is it?"

‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

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Re: A slight change in the front when re potting a Hawthorn

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