Suggestions?

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Suggestions?

Post  Ryan B on Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:50 pm

This tree is up for a repot this spring, so I was curious as to others opinions on what type of pot I should go with(There's nothing wrong with the style its in now, just time for a change). Also, The Jin in front, I've been thinking of removing or attempting to bend it so it doesn't obscure the trunk and shari using the steaming towel technique.
Suggestions?
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Re: Suggestions?

Post  alonsou on Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:15 pm

I guess you are right Ryan, bending that Jin would open up the trunk a bit more and probably help with the over all design.

Hope you don't mind on the quick virtual, but I think it really looks nice bending the Jin.


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Re: Suggestions?

Post  JimLewis on Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:33 pm

I wonder if simply shortening the jin wouldn't give better results???

That is a very nice tree, BTW. And I think the pot it's in is fine.

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Re: Suggestions?

Post  Ryan B on Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:51 pm

Thanks Jim, alonso,
If I do decide to do away with the Jin, I'd definitely be keeping some of it, just removing it as the focal point it is now, exactly like your virt! Cool thing is, there's some real nice Shari under there that's completely hidden by the long trailer.
It's not so much that I dislike the pot it's in shape wise, I just prefer darker red clays for Junipers and the current pot is a cheapie. Since its time for a repot anyway...
I've considered bag shaped, drums, ovals and nanban, but I wanted to get some opinions before dropping more dough on more pots...I have too many(in my wife's opinion!) as it is!
Was really trolling for virts(thanks Smile
Ryan
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/


Last edited by Ryan B on Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:04 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Left out a bit)

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Re: Suggestions?

Post  fiona on Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:18 pm

IMHO the current pot is too deep but perhaps something in roughly the same shape would be appropriate.

Interestingly, I was today looking at a pretty similar pot for a pretty similar tree of my own that I featured on here a year and a half
back. ( HERE) I have discounted it in favour of a much shallower one I have coming to me from Stone monkey but I will be looking at responses to your thread with interest.

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Re: Suggestions?

Post  alonsou on Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:57 pm

IMHO I think a drum drum pot could fit very nicely, I like this one in particular just because of the outside detail and contrast of color between pot and trunk


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Re: Suggestions?

Post  drgonzo on Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:08 am

I just purchased that very same drum alounsou used in his virt. (nice pot and a nice price as well) for my spruce this spring, I agree a drum such as that would be nice and I agree with Jim about simply shortening that jin.
-Jay

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Re: Suggestions?

Post  mike page on Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:14 am

Please, don't cut the jin. A branch at that level on the trunk needs to be that long. Helps the balance.
I think that a more shallow pot would improve the composition. Maybe half the depth of the current pot, and larger in diameter.

Mike

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Re: Suggestions?

Post  Ryan B on Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:32 am

Thanks for the Virt Alonsou.
I agree about the length of the Jin, Mike, that's the major reason I was considering attempting to bend it.
I think an antique mirror shape would be nice as well.
Ryan
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/

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Re: Suggestions?

Post  coh on Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:50 am

That's a very nice tree!

I did a virt where I reduced the length of the deadwood but it didn't look right to me (and accidentally deleted the image). Not sure how much you could actually bend that jin...is there an option to slightly rotate the tree left or right to move the jin from in front of the trunk? Otherwise - I might be tempted to just remove it...

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Re: Suggestions?

Post  Ryan B on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:17 am

Coh,
Rotating, tilting, and other changes are all pretty out. Rotating left and you lose branch no.2 too far to the rear, rotate right and you've gotta move the key branch forward(thick bend!) and you end up with a weak base.
Fairly thick jins can be moved, using boiling hot strips of wet towel wrapped around the Jin multiple times, allow to sit for a good long while(reheating the water in the towel with a hot air gun(I use these for ice carving, they're not that expensive)every half hour or so, after a length of time dependent on the size, age ect of the Jin, it will have absorbed enough moisture to very very slowly be bent. Don't remember where I saw this technique, but it definitely works!

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Re: Suggestions?

Post  Ryan B on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:27 am

Oh, and I don't think I mentioned, tree is chuhin size, 12.5" tall, 2.5" nebari, and a 1.5" trunk.
Current pot is around 5" by 3" tall.

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Re: Suggestions?

Post  gshowman2002 on Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:36 am

How about this ??

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Re: Suggestions?

Post  Ryan B on Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:17 am

Nice bigei pot, but quite large in perspective!
Her pots are judged, and priced, as well, by the level of burnishing and refinement, this pot lacks those. I appreciate the virt for sure though! One of my at hand choices is a bigei, I'll post up them up if enough people are interested.

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Re: Suggestions?

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:44 am

I think the Jin is hiding a reverse taper and would leave it alone.
As to pot, a shallower unglazed oval would be my choice.


Last edited by Billy M. Rhodes on Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:46 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added unglazed)

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Re: Suggestions?

Post  robert nocher on Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:27 am

Hi Ryan,
I really like the branch development and foliage pads on this tree thumbs up , how long has it taken to achieve this

Regards

Robert Nocher

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Re: Suggestions?

Post  JohnMilton on Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:56 am

Hi Ryan,

Personally I think removing the Jin is a good idea. I think that the jin is hiding the movement and covering a gap creating an illusion of inverse taper. I think if you were to thin the live vain as well just abouve where the jin starts it would help the taper as well.
I like the idea of a drum pot like alonsou suggested but perhaps a bit more like this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tokoname-Japanese-bonsai-pot-Bigei-Good-works-3-7-8-10cm-10U12-/390381811130?pt=Planters_Pots&hash=item5ae491b5ba, but in round/drum form. I think that the red clay would compliment the color of the trunk. The roundness of the pot and the ornate feet would compliment the twisting live vain's.
Whilst on the subject of bigei pots i was wondering if there is any relation between the signature or the chop with the quality Bigei pots. Most of the pots i have seen have a signature rather than a stamp. I know you have said some potters sign there better works and some chop them and I was just curious about bigei pots.
Lovely tree by the way be nice to see the final image and the bigei pot you have in mind.

-John

P.S Love the Blog.

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Re: Suggestions?

Post  NeilDellinger on Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:23 am

Ryan,
I like to use Kokofu albums as a good source for inspiration when choosing pots and stands. This is a very very classical choice for this style juniper. You see it very often in the older kokufu albums and it works. The style of pot you have the tree in now is fine. Its an elegant tree and the pot compliments it very well. I agree a higher quality pot would be a good choice..presuming the tree continues to develop and improve. A good tree needs a good pot. Not a cheapo. Yes, cheapo's can be found in the Tokoname catalog too as you likely know Smile

I'd bend the jin as well, but I'd also do a bit more detail carving to it to lighten it up a bit visually.

Great tree by the way.

Neil

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Re: Suggestions?

Post  Ryan B on Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:58 am

Thanks for the replies everyone.
John,
Thanks for reading the blog, I'm just glad others can stomach my jibber jabber about pots! The bigei pot is a good suggestion, one I have considered as well.
Robert,
this is a total "wrong way" wire.
There are crossing branches, excessive bends, Ect. There are still several years to go to get the ramification and density done properly, and there are a few carving sessions planned while it's happening. The major branches were wired some time ago.
Neil,
I also peruse Kokufu and also Gafu albums while I'm doing pot selection, also websites of Japanese nurseries. You are correct, this is "the" classical pot style for taller elegant Shimpaku with foliage on both sides of the trunk. I just don't like the green clay, and the fact that it's a 2,000¥ pot doesn't help either! While this is the classical pot style, I don't feel it frames the composition well, and anchors it a bit too solidly. I'm not looking to drop a grand on an antique Chinese pot, I know it's not ready for that action! The pots I'm looking at are Chinese and Japanese and between 40-60 years old(at least that way when I retire they'll be worth much more than I got them for!
Billy et al,
The Jin doesn't hide a reverse taper. It does in fact create the illusion that it does. That knot where the Jin emerges is actually the trunk doubling back upon itself a couple times, there's excellent Shari there already and plenty of room for more. It's supposed to be pretty nice out tommorow, I'll see of I can't snap a couple pics.
Ryan
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/

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Re: Suggestions?

Post  Ryan B on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:10 am

Oh, and John,
The signed Bigei pots are the best ones. Cheaper Bigei pots have inferior clay coloration and no burnishing, but are often shaped and sized and carved just like their high quality cousins. The level of burnishment determines the real level of quality among the higher end ones. Burnishing is a technique where the outside surface is smoothed and polished to a very very high degree before firing. It's almost like laquer or sanding techniques on wood, in that it's done many many times and very time consuming. The end result is a surface so smooth that it appears to glow, almost like its reflecting light.
Ryan
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/

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Re: Suggestions?

Post  JohnMilton on Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:18 am

Thanks for the information Ryan, its very interesting.

-John

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Re: Suggestions?

Post  Jake16 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:25 pm

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:I think the Jin is hiding a reverse taper and would leave it alone.
As to pot, a shallower unglazed oval would be my choice.

I literally was thinking the same thing when I was reading all the responses. Idk exactly what the trunk looks like but from those pics it looks like inverse taper. Maybe turning the tree and restyling it would remove the jin from the front and correct the inverse taper. That will take a little longer though Smile .

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Re: Suggestions?

Post  vev on Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:00 pm

why not?

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Re: Suggestions?

Post  marcus watts on Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:49 pm

hi,
if you want to do the jin really well and very easily cut it off, sand it, polish it, shape it etc etc and then sharpen the cut end into a little peg shape - drill a small hole on the trunk and insert it at exactly the angle you want - Billy is right ttoo - it does hide the reverse/inverse taper at the moment, but RT in a juniper is easy to disguise by making more shari - the eye sees the bark lines and not the white wood so I would be making more shari in the heavy wide section of the trunk. This is also much easier to do with the jin out the way.

as above post says though, there may be a much better angle to view the tree from - have you used the original front that the tree came with or have you explored all 360 degrees? the pads are very easy to move to just about any viewing angle, even if the back becomes the new front.

I'd explore all these options then decide on the pot

cheers Marcus


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Re: Suggestions?

Post  JimLewis on Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:26 pm

I'd still just shorten it. <g>

I'm not skilled (or steady) enough to "fix" what's behind the jin on the screen, but I bet a simple bit of carving would produce a trunk that is more interesting than a too-long jin (which, in "nature" would have snapped off by the time the tree got this old).


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