Noh Dancer

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Noh Dancer

Post  sunip on Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:41 pm

Hello,
Hope you like it.
Sunip, Wink


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Re: Noh Dancer

Post  sunip on Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:29 am

Hello,
Since nobody reacted on this figure stone,
it is 2,8cm high.
I think it would work well with a mame or shohin display.
Sunip Wink

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Re: Noh Dancer

Post  dick benbow on Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:34 pm

You have a very good imagination and ability to see the mask. So i salute you for that and your knowledge of the japanese culture to be able to come up with such insight.

I'm trying to picture what kind of daiza you would have built to display it. Thinking something sumi ink colored

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Re: Noh Dancer

Post  sunip on Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:02 pm

Hi Dick,
Thanks for your reaction.
Surprising to read you see a mask.
I appreciate it as a standing figure with a red robe, his whitened face is looking to his side in to the imaginary,
the theatrical gesture of his raised sleeved arm is underlining the story he is telling,
also his other hand holding his robe tide to his chest and the position of the feet are adding to his gesture.
Eager to hear other impressions on this one and the other pictures i posted earlier.
Regards, Sunip Wink

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can be seen clearly

Post  stonener on Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:36 pm

Hi Sunip just chiming in, even tho not needed, you guys are doing fine!
I too can see the mask!, it is in the right hand of the actor,
being held up high, as if taken off at end of performance,
to reveal the artist... Suspect
as you say great shohin size, colors, shape, image & ware... ThumbsUp


Last edited by stonener on Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add)

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Re: Noh Dancer

Post  Chris Cochrane on Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:41 pm

Hi Sunip... You have both a realistic view of suiseki & a deft sense of artistry. We share being students. Such a small figure stone is outside my understanding, & I need to learn more. Perhaps, we can both grow through sharing. Tiny stones are something which interests folks on IBC, but most are not as committed to understanding or seriousness as you. Responding in thanks for your many insightful posts...

I've collected a few well-crafted metal objects of tenkei(butsu)/tenpai "additional ornaments" style/size for use in suiban or on boards with stones-- most were created as bonseki 'sand/stone painting' ornaments & may reflect suiseki taste less. Metal objects of fine craftsmanship elevate feeling for their preciousness (especially at this size), which arguably emphasizes the naturalness & lack of craft in a suiseki by stark opposition. Larger (but often still small) figurines as stand-alone ornaments (okimono "portable things") have their own dedicated supporting-board on floors or sit directly on shelves (typically 'carrying' the entire space) on multi-tiered stands or wakidoko "subordinate display (e.g., secondary alcove)" shelf space.

Metal objects of the size separating tenpai & okimono are noted in Suiseki-II: Art Created by Nature. Most telling is discussion of a figurines crafted by the bronze artist Eisho. Sean Smith posted a lovely copy (or original, 6.8 cm length) of one of these bronzes-- an iconic "Boy w/Flute Riding Bull' [linked HERE]-- on the Facebook site of Asociación Española de Suiseki. In an excerpt from text Suiseki-II, p. 143, the Japan Bonsai Cooperative Union notes of Eisho's work:
... although it is appreciated as additional ornaments for bonsai & suiseki, it was originally made as an art to be viewed by sencha enthusiasts as a literary tool.
The book's author Sen-En-Kyo (with implied support by editorial supervisor Ken'ichi Yoshimura) adds:
It is also my sense that his art should be appreciated independently as a small, fine metal-casting art, and not as an accessory for bonsai or suiseki.
The proper accessory might need to pass through the eye of a needle... :-(

If you find that your stone has merit at this size, you might consider naming the figure specifically. Noh figurines (& kabuki figurines) have very modest merit if not distinguishable. The famous Noh dancer chrysanthemum stone is named Hagoromo for the "Feather Mantle" figure of a robed heavenly sprite. I love the plain subdued color of your stone's matrix & imagine it aging to become a rich orange-rust color. Arguably, it will approach the color of robe for which the actor Ichikawa Danjuro (over generations) in the dramatic Kabuki scene Shibaraku is particularly famous along with his mie/"pose." That sleeve rising as the actor unwinds is lovely.

_________________
... visit the U.S. National Bonsai & Penjing Museum, Washington DC USA-- http://www.bonsai-nbf.com

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Re: Noh Dancer

Post  sunip on Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:47 pm

.[/quote]The proper accessory might need to pass through the eye of a needle... :-(

Hy Chris,
Thanks for your thoughts,
The bigger sizes as we know them are for some display fine, small sizes for other, (like you mentioned the tea practice).
Personally i would not use Tenkei or any created figurine that easy on or with a stone, because of the quote earlier.
Not much Tenkei meets my standard, it is my burden.
The emphasis is mostly on the Tenkei because of its lack in quality
which is becoming painfully clear when placed with a suiseki.
It is normally understood as an addition for assisting to determine the setting, to accentuate certain meanings,
or more clear, on an illustrative, prosaic or just accessory manner.(the meaning of the figures can differ in other cultures)
This however hinders my personal appreciation, it restricts my personal process of evocation.
So for me personally, it is most of the time unnecessary.
But then when i see it in a display i understand it and appreciate it as it is.
For me a natural object is much more evocative.
I could imagine the Noh-Kabuki figure stone (with this Shibaruku mie-pose), on a mame or shohin display,
otherwise it would indeed vanish because of its scale.
I would place it ON something flat (an own supporting board) not IN something.
This Chrysanthemum stone you mentioned i do not know.
What do you mean by saying: to consider to name the figure specifically, like Hagoromo?
This would be nice and is done of cours but personally i would not catch any stone in one name.
regards, Sunip Wink

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Re: Noh Dancer

Post  sunip on Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Hello,
Dick and Stonener,
In this picture the mask you saw might be more clear?

Another Noh-Kabuki figure.
regards, Sunip Wink
[/url[url=https://servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=106&u=16274585]

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Re: Noh Dancer

Post  peterbrod on Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:10 pm

Very Happy

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Re: Noh Dancer

Post  Guest on Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:14 pm

Hi Sunip

I like your noh-kabuki figures......

I found a similar in Kyoto two weeks ago. I did not know what to think of it, but thanks to you, I now know it is a Noh- kabuki figure....Many thanks Smile It is a jasper, 8.5 cm, who earned its patina from being stepped on by millions of turists, who has been visiting the famous temple Yasaka-Jinja, through many- many years.





Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: Noh Dancer

Post  sunip on Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:28 pm

Hello Peter.
Each time a different eye.
Sunip Wink


Last edited by sunip on Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Noh Dancer

Post  sunip on Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:31 pm

Hello Yvonne,
Real imperial figure, with nice color.
Did you found this one near the Tempel footpath?
Sunip Wink

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Re: Noh Dancer

Post  Guest on Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:08 pm

Yes...everybody was stepping on it Smile

I don't understand, why it was not picked up long ago. My luck. The stone is awesome, the backside even better.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: Noh Dancer

Post  sunip on Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:20 pm

[quote="Yvonne Graubaek"]Yes...everybody was stepping on it Smile
I don't understand, why it was not picked up long ago. My luck.
The stone is awesome, the backside even better.)

Maybe they did not see, did not dare to, or...?
Please show us the backside, you made me curious.
Sunip, Wink

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Re: Noh Dancer

Post  Guest on Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:13 am

Hi Sunip

I had to think about your words....did not dare.

I have seen it as gravel on the footpath. All stones comming out of the ground this place is stepped on, by a huge amount of people every day, and is having a great patina. This one was just one among many stones....But I can see the problem, if everybody take home a stone. If it had been consideret a problem in Japan. Am I quite sure a signpost saying " No picking up stones" would have been there.

Maybe japanese stonelovers did not pick this, or other stones up, because they consider the stones too small for real suiseki ( like I do)....Maybe they allready took the bigger siced stones Smile .

I have been in Forum Romanum" this is not a place I would pick up anything.



I like the backside of the stone, because of the rounded shape, I now know is the back of the Noh-dancer.

Kind regards Yvonne




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Re: Noh Dancer

Post  Mnhthu99 on Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:28 pm

peterbrod wrote: Very Happy
Thank you very much! inflammation impressive.

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Re: Noh Dancer

Post  sunip on Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:21 pm

Hello Yvonne,
Thank you for showing.
Very impressive.
Grande theater.
I see here a figure hiding his face with his right sleeve in a majestic manner,
is it hiding or the opposite; the evoking of the unseen to be created by the audience?
The color quality gives an impression of great earthy heaviness.
(Or do i see two figures)
Sunip Wink



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Re: Noh Dancer

Post  sunip on Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:16 pm

Hello
Flintstone.
Sunip Wink
[/url[url=https://servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=177&u=16274585]

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another best!

Post  stonener on Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:11 am

WoW! Sunip,
This last flint stone figure is truly amazing,
great color, shape and texture ThumbsUp ...
can easily be seen as actor in a flower pattern kimono,
bowing at the end of a grand theatrical performance... ThumbsUp
even the lighting and theater stage setting works perfect!
I can even hear the audience applauding loudly... ThumbsUp
THREE THUMBS UP!!!


Last edited by stonener on Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:17 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : +)

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would like to share

Post  stonener on Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:32 am

One of mine, "Winking Buddha"
California River, natural tiny figure
black & white Jasper
2.5x3x1.5" Sugata Moyo-ishi... Suspect


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Re: Noh Dancer

Post  Chris Cochrane on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:29 pm

Hi Sunip... Sam & KJ Edge received permission from Tom Elias to post his published/copyrighted description of the stone Hagoromo on their suiseki blog. The Edges' image from Tom & Hiromi's book Chrysanthemum Stones...
stone Hagoromo linked HERE - (c) 2010 by Thomas S. Elias & Hiromi Nakaoji]

You asked,
What do you mean by saying: to consider to name the figure specifically, like Hagoromo?
This would be nice and is done of cours but personally i would not catch any stone in one name.

In suiseki (Japanese practice), human figure stones are named for specific individuals-- some are historical, some are literary, some are mythic or from folklore. Each should be spiritually elevating. None are named for the "group" in which individual "people, characters, spirits" are associated. Therefore terms "monk stone" or "noh dancer" are unheard in suiseki practice. A "monk stone" could be a shangshi or viewing stone, but is inadequate as a stone designated for Japanese style appreciation. Specific characters such as the monk Daruma or the noh shite (masked character/spirit) " Hagoromo are named. In craft, every noh figure has an associated character. There is not a "generic" noh figure/dancer/fan-waver/foot-stamper/red-head/et al.. There are are viewers incapable of recognizing specific characters, but you should not be among them.

In regard to tenpai & okimono in arrangements, I think it accurate to say other objects in display with tenpai are perceived in scale with tenpai figurines. With okimono, there is not that association. It affects reception of accessories when their size is closer to tenpai than to okimono. It is my amateur observation, and subject to revision or dismissal if you imagine otherwise.

Okimono including accessory stones (typically object or pattern stones rather than landscape-views) in closed, multi-tier stand nooks should be of a size to fill the space-- irrespective of the scale of other objects in the stand.

On a floor (or single shelf-space) arrangement of more than one object, a very small figure stone-- standing in for, if not, a tenpai-- might reinforce the size/scaling of other objects in the arrangement-- e.g., figure stone arranged with a small bonsai for its similar scale. A very small figure stone out-of-scale with a small bonsai on a shared floor/single-shelf arrangement would distract from the miniature scene.

_________________
... visit the U.S. National Bonsai & Penjing Museum, Washington DC USA-- http://www.bonsai-nbf.com

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bulls-eye

Post  stonener on Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:22 am

"excellent work" Chris you ROCK!... ThumbsUp

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Re: Noh Dancer

Post  sunip on Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:31 pm

Hello Chris,
Thank you for posting the Hagoromo stone link.
With the myth of the angels robe and the dance of mount Meru in four stages,
the mortals are given a roadmap back to its origin; an universal strong idea.
-Also thanks for the encouragement to look a bit deeper into the Noh and Kabuki theater.
In the eye of the Japanese suiseki appreciation a more specific naming would be accurate.
I am not sure of a naming as -Shibaraku- after the mie pose of Kamakura Gongoro Kagemasa in the Kabuki scene.
The white lines are not referring to the square rice measures of the Ichakawa Danjuro crest?
(maybe such details are no problem, seen with Japanese eyes?)
Maybe someone with more experience in the Noh and Kabuki plays, can give a suggestion for a naming in Japanese way?
The idea of the mask taken off, could be a hint as well.
-I see the stone as a tea stone, on the other hand i do not like to give something a boundary,
however between certain imaginary limits, the infinite can blossom, the line there is quit sharp i feel.
It is like the angel giving here robe in captivity, but in the end the fisherman is transformed by here Suruga dance.
-When a stone has quality (artistic power), it creates space.
A normal stone takes, consumes space.
It is like a dancer who is really moving and making a certain space, while ordinary people just relocate.
-The use of accessories looks as an easy option,
but for me the relation between a main object and a secondary should be natural
one should not be reminded of primary and secondary, it is walking a fine line.
regards, Sunip Wink

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Re: Noh Dancer

Post  sunip on Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:20 pm

Hello Stonener.
Simplicity i an eye wink, like Buddha taking a flower in his hand.
Sorry for my ignorance concerning viewing stones
but does Moyo-ishi means; stone from the Mojave desert?
Sunip Wink

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Re: Noh Dancer

Post  sunip on Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:56 pm

Hello,
On 28 febr. 2010 David Brunner had a post about a skull image stone,
here Chris came up with the story of the poet Ono no Komachi.
Thinking of the Japanese habit of naming stones sometimes more specific,
i could maybe name this stone after the poet Ono no Komachi?
Referring to the story where a passerby heard a poem coming from a skull lying on the ground.
The skull belonged to the poet, and the passerby took care of it.
If understood good i imagine, such a name leaves all space for further evocation?
Sunip Wink


7,5 cm.

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Re: Noh Dancer

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