Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  Rob Kempinski on Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:01 am

jun wrote:Additional question to You Rob and Robert.

Will this tree survive if the major roots were to be removed? like the solution provided by Robert and mine in my first sketch.

If it will survive, more design solutions will open up.

regards,
jun Smile


I believe it will. The natural raft self-rooted itself. Keep the creative juices flowing - there are some unbelievable ideas coming forward. Its getting tough so I am looking for the Miss America judges to make the decision. pig

To encourage more work, I am going to say the prize is a very nice hand-made American pot. I also have a runner up prize in mind.

I will set a deadline of next Thursday evening, January 19. 10 PM East coast USA time.

Go for it.

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  Guest on Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:15 am

Number 4

I borrowed Robert's trunk facing right side... I hope he won't mind. Robert is raising the bar for this friendly contest, I hope we can catch up even just a bit, so here is my extra effort.....

Windswept raft.




regards,
jun Smile


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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  tofuboy on Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:49 am

Good Day Bonsai Friends,
I've been a longtime lurker and decided to contribute by combining design elements/suggestions from jun, pavel and robert...hope you guys dont mind


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And the Winner is ....

Post  Rob Kempinski on Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:47 pm

Since replies have seemed to have stopped, last night I took advantage of having our local club meeting and the appearance of well known American bonsai Master Ben Oki, to decide the Chinese Sweet Plum Virtual Design Challenge.

First let me thank all those that took the time to submit a design or two or three. The creativity evidenced really points out the power of the internet to effect what I would consider a form of advanced study group. This is a great learning tool and frankly I feel more people should get involved if they really want to progress in bonsai. Only a few have a really large collection and the opportunity to work with many different trees. Going through the design process, even if its only virtually forces one to make design choices and to get better. The more trees you do the better you will get. Sketching future designs should be a avocation of all bonsai artists. I keep a sketch book in my briefcase and when I travel or relax I frequently make design sketches of my trees and others trees.

So back to the decision, here was the process. For purposes of impartiality, I took my myself out of the decision making. I printed out each version of the designs and took them along with the actual tree to the Bonsai Society of Brevard Club meeting in Melbourne Florida last night. We had the honor of having Ben Oki visit for a workshop. There I asked Ben and the members of my club to select the best virtual design with the material at hand. Ben evaluated the tree and frankly didn't select any of the virtual designs. He offered his own design via a hasty 2 minute sketch - which I have included.


Ben explained his hasty sketch - keeping the raft features of the tree was the best option and he liked looking at the tree from view point number 5 in the original photos.

However, since Ben did not submit a virtual design, his design was not considered in the voting. The club voted on the virtual designs and two designs got enough votes to make a run off vote. These were:

Jun 's Exposed Root Raft


And Robert's Cascade



And after the run off vote the the winner was:
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Jun's design. cheers

Good job Jun (and Robert). Jun send me a PM with your address and I will send a nice Bellota Pot made by Paul Katich right here in Florida, USA.
Robert gets a consolation prize of a slightly smaller Bellota accent pot. So Robert I need your address too via PM please.

Congratulations to all the designers and thanks again.

BTW, I had made this design.


This tree had some complex branching and an amazing natural raft that seems too good to not use. I believe that is what swayed the club members (and myself and Ben Oki ) to keep a raft design. I'll let the tree be and see what buds pop. I do like the option Ben selected from Angle D. The raft has good movement from that angle. Great to have options.
It will take a long time for the branches to fatten (as Marcus said) and for roots to develop like in Jun's design as it's a long term project but I'll keep you posted.

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Prizes

Post  Rob Kempinski on Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:58 pm

Here are the two prizes I will be shipping out. Both made by Bellota Pots, Paul Katich, Jacksonville, Florida.

For Jun, the winner, a nice rough surface round pot. There is a touch of green glaze along the top.


And for Robert a small lavender accent pot. The photo doesn't do the color justice.


BTW, Robert's other design reminded me of a stegosaurus. Only poetic justice I suppose as I recently gave him a T-Rex virtual.



Last edited by Rob Kempinski on Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  Robert Steven on Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:04 pm

Congratulation Jun..and thanks to Rob for the reward....
Let Jun get the first place and I got my better pot (I like my pot better..).. Dance

You are right, this is one of the best way to learn and to train our creativity....should be more people to offer rewards for such thread. Laughing


Last edited by Robert Steven on Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  Rob Kempinski on Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:10 pm

Robert Steven wrote:Congratulation Jun..and thanks to Rob for the reward....

You are right, this is one of the best way to learn and to train our creativity....should be more people to offer rewards for such thread. Laughing

You're welcome Robert.

I noticed every virtual design cut off the "handle" by the base. Both Ben and I liked it as it mirrors the arched trunk and possibly the heaviest branch (if that branch stays).
When in Guangzhou I noticed quite a few arched or exposed root rafts and those will be partial inspiration for this one.

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  Guest on Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:42 pm

I aaaaaaaaaaam speechless!!!

Thanks Rob and the rest of Bonsai Society of Brevard...and to Mr. Ben Oki, A special thanks to you sir! ( I thought you are kidding about Ben's participation on this).


Robert,

Thank you too! I am not kidding when I said I am trying to read your thoughts when you are asking for different angles from Rob. I am really trying to imagine what you gonna do with the tree. and refer to your books for possible solutions...So I really owe this one to you sir!


Thank you people and IBC...I got two wonderful pots now! coming from great artists of the bonsai world...I'll treasure them...and sell them!(just kidding). I will really hold onto them dearly!

Congratulations too Robert! I am still your fan numero Uno!I hope more people would participate in noble endeavors like this!


WOOOOOW! I love the pot!!!! bounce bounce bounce bounce

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  Poink88 on Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:55 pm

jun wrote:I hope more people would participate in noble endeavors like this!
I do too and if I have more experience (in 10 years it might come) and artistic talent (this might never come)...I would surely participate.

For now, I will be a spectator. Wink

Congrats!

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:42 pm

A tree we saw in China in the fall of 2010

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  Rob Kempinski on Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:36 pm

jun wrote:I aaaaaaaaaaam speechless!!!

Thanks Rob and the rest of Bonsai Society of Brevard...and to Mr. Ben Oki, A special thanks to you sir! ( I thought you are kidding about Ben's participation on this).

WOOOOOW! I love the pot!!!! bounce bounce bounce bounce

regards,
jun Smile

You're welcome Jun, and Ben was definitely there.


PS Ben's wife died in December but he still did his month long trip from California to Florida. A true professional and a great gentleman.


And Billy was there too to confirm the vote. cyclops
This is another example of a Chinese aerial root raft from Guangzhou seen while on the BCI tour in 2010. This was even a Sweet Plum! Same species.

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  Robert Steven on Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:59 am

Rob, please give my best regards to Ben, it has been very long time since the last time we met.

Jun, thanks for your kind words... Laughing
BTW, my pots will be on sale very soon....


Last edited by Robert Steven on Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:01 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : mistype)

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  CraftyTanuki on Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:50 am

Rob Kempinski wrote:



^^^^ This beautiful, look forward to updates on this project Smile

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  Todd Ellis on Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:21 pm

I have thoroughly enjoyed this topic and posting. Pictures are worth a 1,000 words and everyone's contributions have been very creative. Rob, how long do you think it will take before your tree starts to resemble the winning vision? How fast do Sweet Plums grow in FL? What, in your opinion, is the best soil mix for good healthy growth for these plums?
Thanks,
Todd

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:28 pm

A huge CONGRATULATIONS to Jun and Robert. Those are very nice gifts indeed. I was going to work on my design when I got back, but Jun's winning design was almost exactly what I had in mind but couldn't put to paper fast enough. Maybe next time. How wonderful it would be to meet Ben. I'm sorry to hear about his wife passing.

Keep posting these challenges even without winning gifts. This was an amazing experience.

Have a great week everyone!!!!
Sam

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  Jesse on Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:39 pm

Sam Ogranaja wrote:A huge CONGRATULATIONS to Jun and Robert. Those are very nice gifts indeed. ...... How wonderful it would be to meet Ben. I'm sorry to hear about his wife passing.

Keep posting these challenges even without winning gifts. This was an amazing experience.

Have a great week everyone!!!!
Sam

I would echo that in earnest. Thanks for putting this on Rob. A treat to observe and hopefully I'll work up the nerve to give it a shot down the road.

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  Guest on Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:59 pm

Jesse and Sam and others,

Thanks guys!

What ever solutions you have in mind, next time do share them. Making it (virt or sketch) look nice is just a small portion of it, but the idea forms the bulk of the essence.
Don't hold back, exercising the mind thru sketch or virt is really is a very helpful tool in improving our skills. It should be done by individuals too who acquired new materials. IMHO, doing several sketches for one single material as the case we saw here will sometimes spell the difference between a cookie cutter bonsai and a unique design.


....about the price though??? errr. let's encourage more donors please. hehehe! I have an idea, why not invite a bonsai club to be a host for the contests/challenge let's say for a month or week. like what Rob did. and the group or club members will be the sole judges for the design challenge, the problem tree to be designed will come from their members as well, and the little token/price how ever small may come from the club. This is also one way of promoting the club internationally and will be a good learning experienced for the members too. And who knows, design solutions coming from all over the globe may open up new ideas for them too. This is going to be a good point of discussions too in the regular club meetings, rather than talking the same things and ideas on trees all over and over again for years. hehehe.

regards,
jun Smile








regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  marcus watts on Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:04 pm

i really like your club idea Jun, i will offer a prize of 0ne year free membership of our bonsai club for the design Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy - hope you win, you can come on holiday Cool

seriously though these excercises are great fun - I think soon the forum should have a seperate section titled 'virtuals' so we can have all the work together in one place.

I really think the tree owner should be duty bound to show the real tree after the design game is over though, so we can see the real styled tree and see that all the work on virtuals was transformed into the finished design.

best wishes Marcus

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  Rob Kempinski on Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:26 pm

marcus watts wrote:i really like your club idea Jun, i will offer a prize of 0ne year free membership of our bonsai club for the design Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy - hope you win, you can come on holiday Cool

seriously though these excercises are great fun - I think soon the forum should have a seperate section titled 'virtuals' so we can have all the work together in one place.

I really think the tree owner should be duty bound to show the real tree after the design game is over though, so we can see the real styled tree and see that all the work on virtuals was transformed into the finished design.

best wishes Marcus

Hey Marcus, I agree. I will post updates but alas this one will be a fairly long term project to get the new growth where wanted.

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  Rob Kempinski on Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:36 pm

Todd Ellis wrote:I have thoroughly enjoyed this topic and posting. Pictures are worth a 1,000 words and everyone's contributions have been very creative. Rob, how long do you think it will take before your tree starts to resemble the winning vision? How fast do Sweet Plums grow in FL? What, in your opinion, is the best soil mix for good healthy growth for these plums?
Thanks,
Todd

Hey Todd, glad you liked it.

Due to the amount of regrowth required this will be a long term project. Even in Florida I'm guessing this is 7 to 10 year project.
Once the trunks get cut the new growth comes back fairly spindly, Hence a wispy look is going to be necessary. Since the wood is fairly hard though, I can carve some taper into the existing branches. One good thing is the tree does not need winter protection so it can do its thing with only occassional intervention.

As for soil mix, I will use most inorganic, equal parts akadama, turface, lava, sand blast sand, and 2 parts nursery soil to give it a bit of water rentention.

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  Guest on Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:00 am

marcus watts wrote:i really like your club idea Jun, i will offer a prize of 0ne year free membership of our bonsai club for the design Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy - hope you win, you can come on holiday Cool

seriously though these excercises are great fun ....

best wishes Marcus


..Yes Marcus! I love that idea! Seriously, I'll be honored to be an honorary member of your club or any club if I should be lucky to win again...but lightning never strikes twice in the same place. and I am sure more and more people will join in, so the chances of winning will be smaller, nevertheless it would more fun next time around.


your future bonsai club member,
jun Wink


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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  Guest on Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:02 pm

Just looking around my garden...I think I haven't posted the pot I got from this thread. Thanks again Rob!





..A lovely interracial marriage. A pure American pot and pure Filipino tree ( vitex sp indemic to the Philippines)



It's worth the effort right?hehehe Wink

for scale just look at the "table" it's in...

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  pjkatich on Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:28 pm

Hello Jun,

Great job!

I think the pot and the tree work very well together.

I don't often get to see other peoples trees planted in one of my pots.

Thanks for taking the time to share these photos.

Regards,
Paul


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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  Guest on Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:40 pm

pjkatich wrote:Hello Jun,

Great job!

I think the pot and the tree work very well together.

I don't often get to see other peoples trees planted in one of my pots.

Thanks for taking the time to share these photos.

Regards,
Paul




...and planted halfway across the globe. Razz

The potter is here at last! been waiting for you so that I can thank you.

Thank you very much Paul. I am honored to own one of your pots. It is crafted very well thumbs up . I wish I could have more of your pots hehehe... I'll treasure it.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

Post  Rob Kempinski on Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:53 pm

jun wrote:Just looking around my garden...I think I haven't posted the pot I got from this thread. Thanks again Rob!

..A lovely interracial marriage. A pure American pot and pure Filipino tree ( vitex sp indemic to the Philippines)



It's worth the effort right?hehehe Wink

for scale just look at the "table" it's in...

regards,
jun Smile

That's a great looking shohin and excellent use of the pot.

Wonder if Robert got his, never heard.

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Re: Design Challenge - Sageretia theezans, Chinese Sweet Plum

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