PEMPHIS W/ POOR FEATURES

View previous topic View next topic Go down

PEMPHIS W/ POOR FEATURES

Post  Robert Steven on Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:38 am

I got this large Pemphis (about 80 cm) for about USD 40.- because of its poor features, poor nebari, severe invert tapering, pegeon breast trunk shape. Although the deadwood texture was nice, but the main living vein was on the back side with only one very strange branch growing on the upper side downward.



Well, nothing impossible; and this was what I found for the composition...
Any better idea ?


Robert Steven
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: PEMPHIS W/ POOR FEATURES

Post  Rob Kempinski on Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:28 pm

Very good choice. The deadwood frames the foliage nicely.
Perhaps I'd thin the upper jin a bit for taper.


Rob Kempinski
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: PEMPHIS W/ POOR FEATURES

Post  Guest on Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:50 pm

Very nice solution Robert. cheers

IMHO, Sometimes the proper way of solving things is by defying the perceived "rules".

...then one can buy a less expensive material as a result.

regards,
jun Smile

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: PEMPHIS W/ POOR FEATURES

Post  Robert Steven on Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:12 pm

jun wrote:Very nice solution Robert. cheers

IMHO, Sometimes the proper way of solving things is by defying the perceived "rules".

...then one can buy a less expensive material as a result.

regards,
jun Smile

In fact, it's very clever trick for the traders to sell me such material cheap, so I can prove that every material can be turned into nice bonsai, then later on they can sell any material in better price. I have being used in nice way.. Laughing

Robert Steven
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: PEMPHIS W/ POOR FEATURES

Post  hiram on Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:37 pm

Very nice design. I have tried for several years to show beginners that you can bring out the beauty in any bad material. Unfortunately they don't see it or get the concept. One thing I have learned from your last book is to optimize the most of what the tree gives you and make it beautiful. I personally want to thank you for writing such a book. It has been one of my most inspiring tools besides nature itself. thumbs up

hiram
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: PEMPHIS W/ POOR FEATURES

Post  Ed van der Reek on Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:09 pm

Hi Robert,maybe you can style it like this.
I don't know if this is possible,I never worked on Pemphis material.
Gr Ed

Ed van der Reek
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: PEMPHIS W/ POOR FEATURES

Post  Hans van Meer. on Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:15 pm

Robert Steven wrote:I got this large Pemphis (about 80 cm) for about USD 40.- because of its poor features, poor nebari, severe invert tapering, pegeon breast trunk shape. Although the deadwood texture was nice, but the main living vein was on the back side with only one very strange branch growing on the upper side downward.
Well, nothing impossible; and this was what I found for the composition...
Any better idea ?

Hi Robert,
it is so funny how the perception of poor or even bad Bonsai material differs so greatly around the world! I find this material of exceptional quality and I, and I guess many others that live in my part of the world, would kill for raw material like this to work on! All this wonderful movement and spectacular deadwood, and that for only 40 Dollars! I would gladly pay 400 Dollars or more for it! Especially when you know that in your region you can creat new foliage layers in just a couple of years on these species! I guess that I am born in the wrong part of the world?! Very Happy
Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Hans van Meer.

Hans van Meer.
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: PEMPHIS W/ POOR FEATURES

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:50 pm

Hans van Meer. wrote:
Robert Steven wrote:I got this large Pemphis (about 80 cm) for about USD 40.- because of its poor features, poor nebari, severe invert tapering, pegeon breast trunk shape. Although the deadwood texture was nice, but the main living vein was on the back side with only one very strange branch growing on the upper side downward.
Well, nothing impossible; and this was what I found for the composition...
Any better idea ?

Hi Robert,
it is so funny how the perception of poor or even bad Bonsai material differs so greatly around the world! I find this material of exceptional quality and I, and I guess many others that live in my part of the world, would kill for raw material like this to work on! All this wonderful movement and spectacular deadwood, and that for only 40 Dollars! I would gladly pay 400 Dollars or more for it! Especially when you know that in your region you can creat new foliage layers in just a couple of years on these species! I guess that I am born in the wrong part of the world?! Very Happy
Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Hans van Meer.

I agree with Hans. I definitely have material envy. I'm too much of a beginner to transform it even 1/100th of what you do but it would be amazing to own material like that.

Robert, great idea to rotate the trunk the way you did. If it were my tree, I think I would want to move the foliage further to the right. Is it possible to root the top and turn it upside down? Thinking out of the box here.

I really enjoy you posting on here. It's helping me and I think many others tremendously.

Have a great weekend!!!
Sam

Sam Ogranaja
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: PEMPHIS W/ POOR FEATURES

Post  Rob Kempinski on Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:29 pm

Hans van Meer. wrote:
Robert Steven wrote:I got this large Pemphis (about 80 cm) for about USD 40.- because of its poor features, poor nebari, severe invert tapering, pegeon breast trunk shape. Although the deadwood texture was nice, but the main living vein was on the back side with only one very strange branch growing on the upper side downward.
Well, nothing impossible; and this was what I found for the composition...
Any better idea ?

Hi Robert,
it is so funny how the perception of poor or even bad Bonsai material differs so greatly around the world! I find this material of exceptional quality and I, and I guess many others that live in my part of the world, would kill for raw material like this to work on! All this wonderful movement and spectacular deadwood, and that for only 40 Dollars! I would gladly pay 400 Dollars or more for it! Especially when you know that in your region you can creat new foliage layers in just a couple of years on these species! I guess that I am born in the wrong part of the world?! Very Happy
Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Hans van Meer.

Hans, this is a great point. But I guess if you have hundreds of Pemphis to choose from - why compromise. On the other hand I hear reports that the Pemphis natural growing grounds are getting depleted so maybe the poorer material is now becoming more common in the market as the rare resource dries up.


Rob Kempinski
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: PEMPHIS W/ POOR FEATURES

Post  Guest on Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:00 am

Rob Kempinski wrote:
Hans van Meer. wrote:
Robert Steven wrote:I got this large Pemphis (about 80 cm) for about USD 40.- because of its poor features, poor nebari, severe invert tapering, pegeon breast trunk shape. Although the deadwood texture was nice, but the main living vein was on the back side with only one very strange branch growing on the upper side downward.
Well, nothing impossible; and this was what I found for the composition...
Any better idea ?

Hi Robert,
it is so funny how the perception of poor or even bad Bonsai material differs so greatly around the world! I find this material of exceptional quality and I, and I guess many others that live in my part of the world, would kill for raw material like this to work on! All this wonderful movement and spectacular deadwood, and that for only 40 Dollars! I would gladly pay 400 Dollars or more for it! Especially when you know that in your region you can creat new foliage layers in just a couple of years on these species! I guess that I am born in the wrong part of the world?! Very Happy
Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Hans van Meer.

Hans, this is a great point. But I guess if you have hundreds of Pemphis to choose from - why compromise. On the other hand I hear reports that the Pemphis natural growing grounds are getting depleted so maybe the poorer material is now becoming more common in the market as the rare resource dries up.



Hundreds? Thousands maybe?...
Perhaps what Robert is saying, like we often experienced here in the Philippines. Some traders/hunters already knew what the basic form of the bonsai trunks should look like to fetch a good price, like a good base, tapering trunk, a good natural deadwood position nicely, etc.

...Sadly Rob, You are 100% right. I have seen how devastated the sources/habitat of Phempis acidula are. The supply of good materials are becoming very rare now and it is a very good sign too because less and less people are buying Phempis acidula material for its "Poor" quality and people like Robert that can turn bad material to a good bonsai are exceptionally rare.

...Funny, because a couple of days ago I had a chat with Ka Pabling regarding Robert's visit here. And He proposes for Robert to have a holiday in "Palawan" (Philippines last frontier) where he personally saw Phempis acidula forest growing in the wild like tropical forest (like they originally do). He said some Phempis are so huge that Its roots alone are bigger than a man's leg. And in some lagoons Phempis and Premmas are growing in cliffs like a natural bonsai. Shocked The good thing is that this places are under the strict environmental protection program, even taking a single grain of sand is prohibited and each areas are guarded by local tribes. geek With a battle cry-"You take our trees, We'll take your head" ( I made this one up pirat )
Got to save some bucks...Can't wait for the summer... cheers


regards,
jun Smile

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: PEMPHIS W/ POOR FEATURES

Post  Hans van Meer. on Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:16 am

Rob Kempinski wrote:
Hans van Meer. wrote:
Robert Steven wrote:I got this large Pemphis (about 80 cm) for about USD 40.- because of its poor features, poor nebari, severe invert tapering, pegeon breast trunk shape. Although the deadwood texture was nice, but the main living vein was on the back side with only one very strange branch growing on the upper side downward.
Well, nothing impossible; and this was what I found for the composition...
Any better idea ?

Hi Robert,
it is so funny how the perception of poor or even bad Bonsai material differs so greatly around the world! I find this material of exceptional quality and I, and I guess many others that live in my part of the world, would kill for raw material like this to work on! All this wonderful movement and spectacular deadwood, and that for only 40 Dollars! I would gladly pay 400 Dollars or more for it! Especially when you know that in your region you can creat new foliage layers in just a couple of years on these species! I guess that I am born in the wrong part of the world?! Very Happy
Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Hans van Meer.

Hans, this is a great point. But I guess if you have hundreds of Pemphis to choose from - why compromise. On the other hand I hear reports that the Pemphis natural growing grounds are getting depleted so maybe the poorer material is now becoming more common in the market as the rare resource dries up.


Hi Rob,
true I guess. I can imagine that when there is are so many to choose from, you will go for the best! Very Happy And that was my point exactly, if this (in my eyes) beautiful yamadori is poor material for 45 dollars.........well that is just not fair! And I was born in the wrong country! BOOOHOOOOO!!! Very Happy
All kidding a side though, I have to admit that some times it is a bit frustrating that we have no access to this kind of material to work on. Almost no yamadori to be found for hundreds of miles! And lets say that we could be so lucky to find something simulare shaped like this tree of Robert, for sale somewhere. lets say a Juniper or a maybe a Olive, we would be most likely not be able to buy it for 45 dollars! But on the other hand, I completely understand what Roberts is saying and chairing with us! lesser material tickles your imagination much more and if you succeed to make a believable bonsai from this material, than it will poses just that little bit special! This next story happened to me some 15 years ago in Italy, I hat the opportunity to show with shaking hands some photos of my early work to the great Kimura him self! He took a real long time looking at each and every one off them. When he looked up at me and saw my nervousness, he sad to me, with the help of his lovely female translator "You learned your self to make a Bonsai from a tree that my students would only use as a broom to sweep the floor! You have a big advantage on them." ! To make a beautiful bonsai is a great feeling, but to make a beautiful bonsai out of bad material is magical!
Just my thought. Very Happy
Cheers,
Hans van Meer.


Last edited by Hans van Meer. on Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total

Hans van Meer.
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: PEMPHIS W/ POOR FEATURES

Post  carlos on Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:30 am

Robert,

Can only get better!

Warm regards,

Carlos

carlos
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: PEMPHIS W/ POOR FEATURES

Post  Robert Steven on Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:09 am

Thanks Hiram, Carlos.

Ed, that's what my idea was. Sam, I'd prefer to let the flow go to the left to compensate the trunk'c curve...

Han, Rob. You are absolutely right. Even such "bad" materials will get less and less because collecting Pemphis is also prohibited now. $ 40 might be nothing, but few years ago, such material would only ended up as fire wood, not even cheap charcoal... Till 10 years ago, only those materials corresponded to the "rules" could sell...and people thought I was crazy to buy all those junk.

Jun, if time allows, I'd love to visit that place. Everything on track ? sunny

Robert Steven
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: PEMPHIS W/ POOR FEATURES

Post  Guest on Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:33 am

Sent you PM Robert. Wish me luck hehehe. Either Very Happy or Sad ...hopefully not Embarassed


regards,
jun Very Happy

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: PEMPHIS W/ POOR FEATURES

Post  Robert Steven on Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:18 am

All the best Jun..keep me informed. sunny

Robert Steven
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: PEMPHIS W/ POOR FEATURES

Post  Poink88 on Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:53 am

Hans van Meer. wrote:
Hi Robert,
it is so funny how the perception of poor or even bad Bonsai material differs so greatly around the world! I find this material of exceptional quality and I, and I guess many others that live in my part of the world, would kill for raw material like this to work on! All this wonderful movement and spectacular deadwood, and that for only 40 Dollars! I would gladly pay 400 Dollars or more for it! Especially when you know that in your region you can creat new foliage layers in just a couple of years on these species! I guess that I am born in the wrong part of the world?! Very Happy
Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Hans van Meer.

I agree 100%. I felt the same way. I am paying $100 plus here for my "sticks"! Mad

Poink88
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: PEMPHIS W/ POOR FEATURES

Post  DRAWER on Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:15 am

my view...idealism.

DRAWER
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: PEMPHIS W/ POOR FEATURES

Post  Sponsored content Today at 10:25 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum