Some aged Japanese pots

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Some aged Japanese pots

Post  LSBonsai on Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:40 pm

The pots and accompanying information came from a recent trip to a third generation bonsai nursery. Digging under the benches is so much more fun than flipping through the Tokoname catalogue!

~30 years old, 29x20 cm, no stamp



~20 years old, 19x14.5cm, "Shibakatsu"




~20-30 years old, 15x11.5 cm, "Keisen"



~50-60 years old, 16 cm, "Hekisui". Nice patina.




~50-60 years old, 28x20 cm, "Yamaaki"




~50-60 years old, 25x17.5cm, "Yamaaki". Developing nice patina.



~70-80 years old, 22x13.5 cm, no stamp. Very peculiar patina.


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Re: Some aged Japanese pots

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:59 pm

I posted about Tokoname kilns shutting down and some one mentioned so many old pots as a reason. This post seems to validate that claim. (Not meant to condemn finding good old pots, just commenting)

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Re: Some aged Japanese pots

Post  fiona on Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:03 pm

[quote="a2khalid"]
~50-60 years old, 16 cm, "Hekisui". Nice patina.


I love this one and have been looking for one pretty much the same for a juniper I have.

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Re: Some aged Japanese pots

Post  LSBonsai on Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:35 pm

[quote="fiona"]
a2khalid wrote:
~50-60 years old, 16 cm, "Hekisui". Nice patina.


I love this one and have been looking for one pretty much the same for a juniper I have.

Hi Fiona: funny you say that. I had a pot like this in mind for a long time for a twisty little juniper I have. So glad I found it Smile

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Re: Some aged Japanese pots

Post  LSBonsai on Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:38 pm

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:I posted about Tokoname kilns shutting down and some one mentioned so many old pots as a reason. This post seems to validate that claim. (Not meant to condemn finding good old pots, just commenting)

Hi Billy: I hadn't heard of this - interesting. In Japan, old pots are always more desireable than new ones, although I think as long as there is a bonsai industry, there will be a need for new pots.

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Re: Some aged Japanese pots

Post  Ryan B on Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:51 pm

Nice pots Khalid, especially the old white with the nice patina and the Suigura Keisen, if you picked that one up it's worth a bit, 200$ or more. The smaller Keisens I have a bunch of retail for 8,000¥ and are about the same age, though some are older, the kiln was founded in 1960.
I'm skeptical of the age on those Yamaaki pots though, I was under the impression that Katoaka Toshio didn't take over head of the kiln until 35-40 years ago, and those are his stamps.
Ryan
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/

Ps Fiona, drop me a line through the email on my website, I have a bunch of similiar pots to the three legged bag that you're looking for

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Re: Some aged Japanese pots

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:42 am

a2khalid wrote:
Billy M. Rhodes wrote:I posted about Tokoname kilns shutting down and some one mentioned so many old pots as a reason. This post seems to validate that claim. (Not meant to condemn finding good old pots, just commenting)

Hi Billy: I hadn't heard of this - interesting. In Japan, old pots are always more desirable than new ones, although I think as long as there is a bonsai industry, there will be a need for new pots.

I visited Tokoname as part of the BCI Tour to Japan in Nov. 2011 and we visited only three bonsai kilns. A lot of the manufacturing has moved to China or Vietnam. Our guide was the Chairman of the Pottery Guild. His family had been in Tokoname for many years and made bathroom fixtures. His family operation is now in Vietnam. I have pots made in China with Japanese marks. However, we did buy some pots in Tokoname. Check out my post on this. I only bought small pots mostly as souvenirs, but some in our group bought much larger pots. As I said in my post I was concerned about getting the larger pots home, and I have a lot of pots. (But we never have enough.)

One Bonsai Master's collection of antique Chinese pots.

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Re: Some aged Japanese pots

Post  Russell Coker on Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:03 am

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:

One Bonsai Master's collection of antique Chinese pots.


That must be what heaven looks like (except for the bad fitting jeans).

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Re: Some aged Japanese pots

Post  LSBonsai on Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:32 am

Ryan B wrote:Nice pots Khalid, especially the old white with the nice patina and the Suigura Keisen, if you picked that one up it's worth a bit, 200$ or more. The smaller Keisens I have a bunch of retail for 8,000¥ and are about the same age, though some are older, the kiln was founded in 1960.
I'm skeptical of the age on those Yamaaki pots though, I was under the impression that Katoaka Toshio didn't take over head of the kiln until 35-40 years ago, and those are his stamps.
Ryan
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/

Ps Fiona, drop me a line through the email on my website, I have a bunch of similiar pots to the three legged bag that you're looking for

Thanks Ryan for the very helpful information. It is entirely possible the dates on the yamaaki pots are a bit off. I was pulling piles of pots out of the muck and the owner of the nursery was doing his best trying to give me approximate dates off the top of his head. I do know that there are at least 40 year old yamaaki pots with this stamp, because one of the yamaaki`s I almost bought was a `commemorative edition`with an additional stamp commemorating the 1971 Osaka Expo, in addition to the typical yamaaki stamp. According to your information, this would make that commemorative pot one of the oldest yamaaki pots with the Toshio stamp. Unfortunately I didn`t buy it because I had limited space in my bag, and the pot didn`t have great patina. But I should have bought it knowing what I know now... it would have been a steal! Still, given the patina on the yamaaki`s I posted, I would be surprised if they are less than 30-40 years old.

And the Keisen... wow! What a score! When I was picking these pots, I knew basically nothing about Japanese pots, and this little yellow one just looked `special`. The nursery owner told me that shohin pots by that maker are quite famous in Japan, and you just confirmed that. Thanks!

The white pot is very interesting in that it has patina on the inside and `half`of the outside. We were trying to figure out how this patina developed and concluded it must have been half buried for many decades.

p.s. just checked out your website... awesome! You have a stunning collection!

Thanks again Smile

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Re: Some aged Japanese pots

Post  Russell Coker on Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:36 am



What the hell happened to the drain holes of that yellow pot?

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Re: Some aged Japanese pots

Post  LSBonsai on Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:46 am

Russell Coker wrote:

What the hell happened to the drain holes of that yellow pot?

Probably were drilled to make them larger... I saw a lot of drilled out holes when I was in Japan, even in antique chinese pots. Nothing to get upset about though, you sound pretty angry about it...

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Re: Some aged Japanese pots

Post  Russell Coker on Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:08 am

a2khalid wrote:
Russell Coker wrote:

What the hell happened to the drain holes of that yellow pot?

Probably were drilled to make them larger... I saw a lot of drilled out holes when I was in Japan, even in antique chinese pots. Nothing to get upset about though, you sound pretty angry about it...

Angry? No. Why would I be "angry" about something as asinine as that?

Just wondering why a "new" pot needed bigger holes in the exact same place. Doesn't that strike you as a little odd? Anyway, it's my favorite pot of the bunch. Why not add some new ones in the corners if you're going to the trouble. I saw plenty of old pots in Japan with drilled holes in them too. Mostly old shallow Chinese suibans turned into antique Chinese "bonsai" pots. Commonplace.

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Re: Some aged Japanese pots

Post  Ryan B on Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:47 am

I see no signs of drilling on that yellow. Looks like the holes were originally gourd shaped to me. No fracking cracking and splitting like if they were drilled.
Maybe I'll put uP a post about Keisen soon. They're nice pots for sure!
Ryan
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/

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Re: Some aged Japanese pots

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:00 am

That must be what heaven looks like (except for the bad fitting jeans).

Heaven to a bonsai guy for sure. As to the jeans, it might be the way Omar was standing when I shot the picture.

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Re: Some aged Japanese pots

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:27 am

Lovely pots. My favourites is the white and yellow pots

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: Some aged Japanese pots

Post  Russell Coker on Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:25 pm

Ryan B wrote:I see no signs of drilling on that yellow. Looks like the holes were originally gourd shaped to me. No fracking cracking and splitting like if they were drilled.

Really? Sure looks drilled to me. Those don't look like gourds to me - but who knows? It's not really important, and I'd love to have that pot - funky holes and all! I saw plenty of old pots with perfect new holes that showed none of the traits you mention. I was amazed at how well they were done, and always wondered what kind of drill they used.

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