Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

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Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  Matija Triglav Tijek on Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:30 pm

Hi, everyone!

I would like to show you one of my wild cherry trees, I have been collected in 2009. Actually my mother did find this one and she is very proud about it, but too bad that she is showing to her friends different tree every time... . I thing that this find was only a luck... if not, she would probably remember this nice tree. But anyway, Thanks Mom!!

Ok, here is a time sequence how this tree had evolved.

2009



2010



2011 spring



today



today


Greetings Matija

Matija Triglav Tijek
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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  Rob Kempinski on Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:35 pm

Coming along nicely.

Great that your mother helps you collect. silent

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  Jim Doiron on Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:21 pm

Great tree with some really beautiful character, I am a sucker for some deciduous deadwood. I have been trying for years to enlist family to be on the lookout for me for material. Nothing yet. Congrats on some great work, I would love to see it flowering.

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Prunus mehaleb

Post  bonsaisr on Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:04 pm

Jim Doiron wrote: I have been trying for years to enlist family to be on the lookout for me for material.
Unfortunately, the northeastern US has very few suitable bonsai species that are easily accessible. Our best species is American larch, but for that you usually have to go hiking in the mountains. Read Nick Lenz' Bonsai from the Wild for other ideas.
I once collected a little hawthorn from a vacant lot, but it was so full of diseases that I had to throw it out. I once had a good sized native crabapple, but that succumbed to borers. I should have air layered it. I still have the red maple I collected in Massachusetts 20 years ago, but it gives me fits.
There are several Prunus species that are common in the Mid-South, but they are not as good bonsai material as the European ones. But you never know. Keep looking.
Iris

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  Matija Triglav Tijek on Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:32 am

Hi everyone and thanks for reply!

Jim, here is a picture with flowers for you. Sorry but I don't know where did I lost closer pictures in this stage of growth.

Rob, it's not that my mother goes with me every time... It happened two or three times, but mostly I collect alone or with good bonsai friends.




Greetings, Matija

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  Mitch - Cedarbog on Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:50 pm

Again, i really like this tree. The hollow really adds great character to this tree. Thanks for showing the progression abit since I was curious how it looked at collection as well. Everytime I do collect a tree, I try to take a picture at the collect site for reference.
Iris, you are wrong again, there are plenty of species that are fine in northeastern usa. Those that dont know how to work on natives in general or expand their knowledge on material they work on are the ones who would believe that. Of course several species are just garbage but you are making it seem that the so called larches are the only material out here and thats not correct. American hornbeam, ironwood, northern white cedars, red maples, eastern red cedars(yes i said it), virginia pines, pitch pines,....the list goes on. Take a look at the national exhibition books from the show there where you are located. There are several awesome species other than that larch that are northeastern natives.

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  crust on Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:45 am

I agree with Iris. In the US it seems as though native decidous plants in the NE don't make great bonsai. Conifers such as Native junipers, pines and of course larch, which I never have collected from a mountain but usually a swamp, sometimes a ditch and rarely from a shore are sweet but for beautiful sustainable decidous I know of only apples and a few incidental small growing species. The native hawthorn here in my neck of the woods(MN) has been frustrating to grow and are slow as snails for me. The same for the hornbeam which seems to be genetically weak and a branch dropper--I wish I could sucessfully collect and grow the native carpinus or ostrya so much--sigh.

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  drgonzo on Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:55 am

On my property I have an interesting mix of species that are all naturalized to my area, of them I have collected and had success with

European Buckthorn
American Beech
Washington Hawthorn, Downy Hawthorn, Cockspur Hawthorn
Elaeagnus (silverberry)
Choke cherry
Alternate leaf dogwood
Wild Honeysuckle
Downey Serviceberry
Virginia creeper
Fox grape
Black willow
American Elm, Rock Elm, Slippery Elm

There are, in my opinion, MANY excellent native north American species with which to work. The members of the above list are ALL available right in my back wood lot, It just takes an eye for workable material and a willingness to experiment! Theres gold in them thar hills, you just gotta go find it.
-Jay

And to paraphrase Nick Lenz- 'never pass up a thick trunked Poison Ivy'


Last edited by drgonzo on Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:17 am; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : forgot slippery Elm)

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  crust on Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:42 am

Hmmm,
drgonzo tell me if you find Hundreds of large world class decidous American trees derived from your list. Hundreds of amazing cherries and hawthorns, hornbeam etc. etc. are being found and dug and grown by the folks across the pond. Have you seen any of such locally collected bonsai of the caliber of the cherry posted in this thread? Rarely. Maybe its just us but I see no or few real impressive bonsai from your list. Most of the bonsai professional I have met in the north, such a Lenz, have found many of the native decidous species crappy for bonsai and other than Malus. I wish it were not the case.

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  Mitch - Cedarbog on Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:26 am

Your area must not be good. I am also talking about field grown material and collected material. It takes patience which is few and far between in america hence why many trees are bought instead of made. If we would just get off this belief that non native specimens must be used then that would open up a world of opportunity on american natives(plenty of by the way) do a bit of research on ideal sites in your area like geologic formations ect and check them out. It blows me away that some species are considered "suitable" whose foilage are bigger than natives themselves. Virginian pine needles are naturally 1.5 inches-2 inches long....what's wrong with it. American hornbeams are identical to any out there. To me it seems to be an visual eye problem....not being able to look at a tree and find the bonsai within. Its luck mostly but having a good eye will help.

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  will baddeley on Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:37 am

I would point out some of the amazing Elms that Neil Dellinger has collected for specie alone. http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t8399-collected-elm-update-progress-of-a-few-trees

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  Mitch - Cedarbog on Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:52 am

I don't know how to post pics on here via phone but my favorite deciduous tree i possess is an elm. Rock elm. It was collected 2 years ago. I saw that thread. Those elms are great just as Trig's cherry is. Beautiful collected specimens are to be had. Don't limit yourself on species to the point of stifling your growth in knowledge.

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  drgonzo on Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:01 pm

crust wrote:Hmmm,
drgonzo tell me if you find Hundreds of large world class decidous American trees derived from your list.

Most of the bonsai professional I have met in the north, such a Lenz, have found many of the native decidous species crappy for bonsai and other than Malus.

Its my holiday wish for all of us on this forum in North America to be able to find "hundreds" of "large world class" Bonsai.

Its unfortunate Nick feels that way especially with regards to that nice book about North American native Bonsai he wrote.

-Jay

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  crust on Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:48 am

Mitch,
I don't have a intrinsic belief that northern species of decidious American plants are somehow inferior but when you grow certain species side by side ones with good bonsai traits make themselves apparent for instance with American horbeam compared to Korean or Chinesis. They are wholey different material. I suppose much of the issue is finding great core material such as the wonderful cherry in this thread.One might be able to tolerate the less bonsai-like traits if great material was had. I have seen no such hornbeams collected here--perhaps they are out there. The American hornbeams I have collected have been podgerously slow and responded weakly. I gave up on them. The Carpinus Chinesis coming out of the Ukrain area is very strong responsive material and many high quality bonsai are being developed from the large collected stock however squat is being able to be done with local collected hornbeams here.

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  NeilDellinger on Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:48 am

Thanks Will.
An example to share below:
In Tulsa, there was one individual in the club who collected amazing material for nearly 25 years while everyone else in the club complained that they could not find good material. Right there this person was growing excellent native trees. Sure some of it was slow growing or had interest and character that did not include grate ramification.

The point I am making is that he did not whine about the poor traits of SOME species, he went and found trees with character and focused on that. The difference between him and everyone else... He saw the positive trait FIRST and not the negative and then he used the character as an advantage.

As I mentioned only a few species had the ability to achieve great ramification (elms & hackberry). Sure most of his collection was comprised of those trees. But the many other natives had superb bark, excellent fall color, interesting flowers or fruit etc. etc. etc.... Do you not have celtis occidentalis in the northeast......and cows or sheep? Go out for a drive and check fence rows etc..

I have no photos, other than my elms that Will posted. Hopefully you will trust & take my word that I know a decent tree when it.

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  jgeanangel on Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:29 pm

crust wrote:Mitch,
The Carpinus Chinesis coming out of the Ukrain area is very strong responsive material and many high quality bonsai are being developed from the large collected stock however squat is being able to be done with local collected hornbeams here.

Perhaps you should move there...Smile I am sure you would find it to be bonsai paradise.


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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  Matija Triglav Tijek on Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:11 pm

NeilDellinger wrote:Thanks Will.
An example to share below:
In Tulsa, there was one individual in the club who collected amazing material for nearly 25 years while everyone else in the club complained that they could not find good material. Right there this person was growing excellent native trees. Sure some of it was slow growing or had interest and character that did not include grate ramification.

The point I am making is that he did not whine about the poor traits of SOME species, he went and found trees with character and focused on that. The difference between him and everyone else... He saw the positive trait FIRST and not the negative and then he used the character as an advantage.

As I mentioned only a few species had the ability to achieve great ramification (elms & hackberry). Sure most of his collection was comprised of those trees. But the many other natives had superb bark, excellent fall color, interesting flowers or fruit etc. etc. etc.... Do you not have celtis occidentalis in the northeast......and cows or sheep? Go out for a drive and check fence rows etc..

I have no photos, other than my elms that Will posted. Hopefully you will trust & take my word that I know a decent tree when it.


Exactly what I'm thinking and doing...

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  crust on Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:21 pm

Ironically, I have essentially a all native bonsai collection with most being collected from from the wild. I need to spend more time looking for wildling decidious I guess. Have only found interesting Hawthorn(none in my collection now), escaped honeysuckle, ninebark(small), potentilla(small). Most of the collection is conifers( white cedar, pine, juniper and larch). Never have found any elms worthy of collecting. Never have found a hackberry--too far north I belive being I am in North central Minnesota
Posted is one of my honeysuckles which even after ten years is nothing compared to the Cherry.

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  crust on Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:41 pm


Oops here is the Honeysuckle...I think.

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  crust on Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:48 pm

Oh here its is: wild honeysuckle

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  Walter Pall on Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:59 pm

Now this is a cool honeysuckle.

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  Rob Kempinski on Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:07 am

Walter Pall wrote:Now this is a cool honeysuckle.
I agree. Very cool and well styled.

Florida is in North America and there are all kinds of trees to collect here. Namely Buttonwood, Bald Cypress, Florida Elm (variant of American elm), Hackberry, Hornbeam, Eleagnus, Ilex schillings, Stopper, Ficus and the list goes on and on. The trick is searching for good specimens and getting permission to collect.
Then there is urban-a-dori. Lots of great long term landscape trees available with a bit of looking.

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  coh on Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:02 am

I really like both of the trees posted in this thread - the cherry that started it all and the honeysuckle from a few posts back.

As for the other issue raised...I think people tend to become somewhat "blinded" to the potential around them. Those wild, twisted, old, mountain-collected trees are impressive, but not every bonsai has to look like that. The honeysuckle is a perfect example - it has a beauty and elegance all its own.

Chris

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  Mitch - Cedarbog on Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:42 am

crust wrote:Mitch,
I don't have a intrinsic belief that northern species of decidious American plants are somehow inferior but when you grow certain species side by side ones with good bonsai traits make themselves apparent for instance with American horbeam compared to Korean or Chinesis. They are wholey different material. I suppose much of the issue is finding great core material such as the wonderful cherry in this thread.One might be able to tolerate the less bonsai-like traits if great material was had. I have seen no such hornbeams collected here--perhaps they are out there. The American hornbeams I have collected have been podgerously slow and responded weakly. I gave up on them. The Carpinus Chinesis coming out of the Ukrain area is very strong responsive material and many high quality bonsai are being developed from the large collected stock however squat is being able to be done with local collected hornbeams here.
now I see both side of the issue at a more unbiased viewpoint. But it is a good point to focus on the positive aspects/or features on a native yamadori and develop from there. I am still fond and focused on the natives. If I figure out how to post pics on here, you would see some of my collected material. I am sorry that I can't post pics....some of the pics will for sure generate some conversation good and bad depending on individual viewpoints.

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

Post  Mitch - Cedarbog on Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:44 am

And also, very nice honeysuckle! There's many arond here but as far as what I have seen, none with a shape like that one.

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Re: Wild cherry ( Prunus mahaleb)

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