ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

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ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  cram on Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:02 pm

hello friends!
these are the chinese ulmus i am making by learning with law(laurent darrieux) and vev(herve dora)
in this extrem esthetic they explore the most often
as for the ficus fantasy style post...the goal is to create a bonsai with the only vegetal survival rules
in fact you make an impossible tree that can live without loosing branches or ...die Razz
they are experimental subjects for me


these trees get still too many branches(i have still not confidence in myself and my choices Laughing )
....in the future ..i ll shoud choose the best graphic lines
and i hope that you will help me to make them better
so please give me some squetchs and virtuals

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cram
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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  jrodriguez on Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:23 pm

Cram,

This approach is used to style some trees in Taiwan, for example, 蔓榕 Man Rong (Ficus Penduculosa/ Gibbosa;literally translated creeping ficus), Premna and other vines like/creeping shrubs like Bougainvillea. I know that Law (Laurent Darrieux) has learned from Lo Min Hsuan and it seems to me that he is adapting this styles to the material he has available. It is lways refereshing to see new approaches and I hope that trials on some other species in France are successful. I imagine that edible fig (Ficus carica) will be most suitable to train in this style.

Thanks for posting.

Warm regards,

Jose Luis

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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  cram on Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:31 pm

thank you for your reply jose luis!
well ..you re right ...this style is used by some people in taiwan and law and vev were inspired by taiwan trees style

in fact law has met mr lo only last year...and they work together again this year...he did not were his student
but he learned me this style a long time before meeting mr lo
and taiwan is a revelation for him ...i think


anyway...for me it is a mix of the old octopus style ..taiwan style and maybe free style Very Happy
it is a very interessting way to push the limits(vegetal and esthetic) and learn by this way

a little bit too complex for me for the moment...but it is a funny playground

cram
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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  jrodriguez on Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:44 pm

cram wrote:thank you for your reply jose luis!
well ..you re right ...this style is used by some people in taiwan and law and vev were inspired by taiwan trees style

in fact law has met mr lo only last year...and they work together again this year...he did not were his student
but he learned me this style a long time before meeting mr lo
and taiwan is a revelation for him ...i think


anyway...for me it is a mix of the old octopus style ..taiwan style and maybe free style Very Happy
it is a very interessting way to push the limits(vegetal and esthetic) and learn by this way

a little bit too complex for me for the moment...but it is a funny playground

Yes, Law participated in Lo Min Hsuan's class last week, mostly working on juniper and pine.

I understand your point on the complexity of this particular style. I suggest Ficus carica because some of the branches will fuse, making interesting character and intricate lines on the material. I suggest that you let most of the main structure fatten up, in different girths and degrees of thickness. Only then will the whole composition will be more credible and exemplary of age.

Anyhow, congratulations on your good work!

Kind regards,

Jose Luis

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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  cram on Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:31 pm

thank you
but i did not make all the trees Embarassed ...mostly of the trunk line of the two most compicated was created by law ...
and he give me these trees as rough material to continue them

that explain why the branches are so confusely made Laughing

and that s why i d like to get your visions on this

cram
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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  AdamJonas on Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:28 pm

I like the last one only:)
Maybe if You cut some branches the first and the second will be more interesting and clear in their figure. They look like a shimpaku;)

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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  cram on Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:25 am

i ve done entierely the last one
but i prefer the others Rolling Eyes

yes...which branches sould i remove adam?

cram
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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  AlainK on Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:41 am

I also like tthe last one.

But is necessary to leave the wires bite into the bark until they're swallowed into the wood to achieve such a design?

For the first ones, I really don't see the point : one thing that I like about deciduous trees is that they change according to the season. Here, what would the first one look like when in full leaves ? Shocked

Laurent is a very talented bonsai artist, but I think that however respectable his experiments are, here, he's in a dead-end...

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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  jrodriguez on Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:17 pm

AlainK wrote:I also like tthe last one.

But is necessary to leave the wires bite into the bark until they're swallowed into the wood to achieve such a design?

For the first ones, I really don't see the point : one thing that I like about deciduous trees is that they change according to the season. Here, what would the first one look like when in full leaves ? Shocked

Laurent is a very talented bonsai artist, but I think that however respectable his experiments are, here, he's in a dead-end...

Alain,

Give them time to mature...a little differentiation betwen the girth in branches will make the designs more mature ans credible.

By the way, it is not necessary for the branches to swallow the bark.

Kind regards,

Jose Luis

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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  cram on Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:31 pm

that s it!...let s time make them going better alain
the formation has only two years...
and ...actually..it is my shaping on law' s trunk lines
so if dead end there is...it is mine

i really think that the three trees could become some nice pieces
...it depend only of what i will do with them
i know there is too many branches....but like this i still get many options aswell

but be sure of one thing if it were laurent who made them
they surely would be really better

i understand this style will not be found nice by everybody
but i like to go on several ways in bonsai...


Last edited by cram on Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  -Tony- on Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:32 pm

hello seb
I tried a drawing for the second. Shocked
I do not know if it's feasible, I cannot see the insertion of the branches on the trunk.
And I have not drawn the back branches. Razz
See you soon.
Tony

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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  cram on Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:35 pm

yes it is a good idea Very Happy
but actually the lower branche on the left take part of the spiral you want to cut Wink

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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  -Tony- on Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:39 pm

With grafting ? What a Face

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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  cram on Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:48 pm

yes ...with grafting its possible Basketball

but i don t really want to simplify the trunk line
i want to reveal it with few foliage

even if i have to remove 70 per cent of them

cram
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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  AlainK on Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:58 pm

jrodriguez wrote:

Alain,

Give them time to mature...a little differentiation betwen the girth in branches will make the designs more mature ans credible.


Maybe... That's what everyone tries to do with any style of bonsai.


jrodriguez wrote:
By the way, it is not necessary for the branches to swallow the bark.

Kind regards,

Jose Luis

No, it isn't, but I was talking about the wires: as far as I know, they let the wires be swallowed by the bark, that's a big difference. Why not ? But that's not my cup of tea...

And as for the design, I gave up experimenting with LSD in my early twenties, that's 35 years ago! lol!

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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  cram on Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:15 pm

no ...personnaly...i remove the wires from the scares on ramification now

but you don t need to take drugs to reach the conciousness doors pirat
i had already understand years ago it was not your cup of tea Rolling Eyes
then what? do i stop to do it by the way? Razz



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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  AlainK on Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:19 pm

cram wrote:no ...personnaly...i remove the wires from the scares on ramification now

Glad to hear that Smile

cram wrote:
then what? do i stop to do it by the way? Razz

No, do as you like: as many people, as many different opinions (Vivekananda) Cool

If I don't like the first ones because I don't believe they will ever be nice-looking when in leaves, the last one seems interesting to me, but once again, that's just a personal opinion, for what it's worth.

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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  cram on Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:24 pm

Rolling Eyes well ...i will try anyway
as usually in bonsai ....time will tell Wink

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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  AdamJonas on Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:59 pm

cram wrote:i ve done entierely the last one
but i prefer the others Rolling Eyes

yes...which branches sould i remove adam?
Cram..I don't know, I don't see it in this artistic mess Smile In my humble opinion - a fanciful trunk - that's enought. Branches should be less complicated.

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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  cram on Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:55 am

it s true Wink ....it is too charged for the moment by keeping a lot of complicated branches
that s why i was asking about ideas Laughing

i will work them in the spring Wink

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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  cram on Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:31 pm

up
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[img][/img]
[img][/img]

cram
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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  cram on Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:33 pm

[img][/img]

cram
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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  cram on Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:34 pm

[img][/img]
[img][/img]

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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  Peter E. on Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:05 pm

cram wrote:[img][/img]
I love this tree but feel that it should be planted a bit deeper on the left hand side to bring the apex more in line with the trunk.
It is almost falling over.
The last little tree is simply stunning. ThumbsUp

Peter E.
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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

Post  AlainK on Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:10 pm

cram wrote:

Respect pour celui-là !

Hat off for this one!

Sorry my friend, but the others still look too messy for me (Désolé mon ami, mais les autres me paraiseent toujours autant désordonnés).

I know you from different forums, and I know you are an honest person so take my advice for what it's worth:
(Je te connais par d'autres forums, et je sais -j'en suis certain !- que tu es quelqu'un d'honnête, alors prend mon conseil pur ce que ça vaut : )

Sell the others to beginners! (Vend les autres à des débutants !) : they'll be impressed, and give you a lot of money, so you can buy champagne and foie gras (not "pâté de foie gras" as they say -only know?- in the UK Rolling Eyes )

Actually, it's not very far from the (excellent) school of bonsai in Italy: twist every branch to make it more compact.
(En fait, ce n'est guère éloigné de (l'excellente) école italienne : tordre chaque branche pour la rendre plus compacte)

C'est un style, un point de vue (a point of view)...

----

On this tree, I would say:

As it is, when I imagine the leaves on, it looks a bit like a late-fidfties hairdo, what's the word? "Fluffed?" "Bouffant hairdo?"...

Anyway, there's a branch on the left that I would cut off.

And a few others too:




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Re: ulmus fantasy style by law and vev

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