Identifying olive trees

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Identifying olive trees

Post  jake4bonsai on Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:20 am

Hello everyone! Is there anyone here that may be able to help to indentify a couple olive trees? Someone gave me two nice olive trees of the same species but he did not know what cultivar they are. It gets below freezing in the winter here and i would like to know how to care for these trees. I was under the assumption that olives are warmer climate species like tropical or sub tropical. If i can get a picture posted of them on here is there anyone with knowledge of olives. I hate having trees that i dont know what they are for sure, I like to be able to care for them corretly. Not to mention they are too nice to let die from being ignorant to thier needs. Thanks to anyone whom can help me! Jake

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Re: Identifying olive trees

Post  JimLewis on Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:59 pm

If you are having problems getting a picture up, go here: http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t243-tutorial-on-posting-pics

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Identifying Olive Trees

Post  bonsaisr on Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:13 pm

The only named cultivar of European olive that is grown for bonsai is "Little Ollie," a sterile dwarf. The hardiness & culture are identical to the species. European olive is not hardy in Ohio and must be kept in a suitable indoor location in the winter. You will need a full south facing window or a fluorescent light setup.
There are a number of unrelated species grown for bonsai with olive as part of the common name, such as dwarf black olive, Bucida molineti. They are all tropical or subtropical and must be protected from freezing.
The exception is Russian olive, Eleagnus angustifolia. This is a hardy shrub that will take all sorts of adversity, but I have never heard of it being used for bonsai.
We are awaiting pictures. Be sure to include a close-up.
Iris


Last edited by bonsaisr on Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : additional information)

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Picture Posting

Post  jake4bonsai on Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:45 am

Its not that i dont know how to post pictures but that its just when i take a picture with my camera and try to post it im told that the picture is too big in size and i sont know how to make the picture or the file smaller. Ive been trying to post pics ever since i became a member but have not succeeded for this reason. I would love to be able to get pictures on here. any ideas? And thanks Iris, i will get some pics on here soon if i can figure it out. Being winter if those olives are tropical i need to get them inside, If there not then they need to stay outside. Ive been lucky, i just got them yesterday when i posted and its been in the 50s and 60s this week and in the 40s and 50 at night but ive got to get it figured out by the end of the week because lows will be back to freezing. I asked Graham Potter for help and he gave me a link and said this might help and i looked at that and thier was alot of information but the trees i have looked alot like several species on his site. So i gained alot of info on olives and care in general but still dont know what cultivar i have. Thanks all, Jake

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Re: Identifying olive trees

Post  JimLewis on Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:45 pm

Do you have a paint program or one of the image-editing programs -- photoshop, photofiltre, or any of a number of others? All of them have a function to resize photos. Check their HELP pages.

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Re: Identifying olive trees

Post  carlos on Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:33 pm

bonsaisr wrote:TThere are a number of unrelated species grown for bonsai with olive as part of the common name, such as dwarf black olive, Bucida molineti. They are all tropical or subtropical and must be protected from freezing.

What type of Bucida is this? As far as I know, Dwarf Black Olive or Spiny Black Olive is Bucida spinosa...

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Re: Identifying olive trees

Post  rock on Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:48 pm

jake4bonsai wrote:Hello everyone! Is there anyone here that may be able to help to indentify a couple olive trees?

Jake,
It kinda easy if we just have a photo. I be happy to upload your photo , if you want to PM me. Olives are my thing, so I would be happy to help you

Very Happy



First trim on an 80 year old stump

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Olives

Post  bonsaisr on Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:58 pm

carlos wrote:As far as I know, Dwarf Black Olive or Spiny Black Olive is Bucida spinosa...
Sorry, the name has been changed.
Iris

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Olive Pics

Post  jake4bonsai on Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:52 am

I posted the pics of one of the olive trees, has everyone that was awaiting these pictures seen them yet? There not on this thread for some reason. I must have selected a new topic when i put them on. Let me see if i can get them on here...




Ahh, ok here we are. I hope it worked. Let me know what you all think. I would love to find out exactly what cultivar of olive these are. Ive been bringing them in at night when it drops below freezing and i dont want to be doing this if its not a tropical or sub tropical tree. As i understand it, i quess the russian olive is the only temperate climate olive. Is that correct? Jake

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Re: Identifying olive trees

Post  JimLewis on Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:53 pm

Except the Russian olive is NOT an Olive or even very closely related. Osmanthus (tea olive) is in the Oleacea family, so it might be considered a temperate olive, I suppose, but it is not an Olea (true olive).

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Identifying Olive Trees

Post  bonsaisr on Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:38 pm

Yes, what you have are typical European olive. One of your pictures looks a bit like "Little Ollie," but if I were you, I would forget about looking for a cultivar name. For your purposes it doesn't really matter. Your present temporary arrangement will not be satisfactory for long. Find a place where they can spend the winter, cool but above freezing and with maximum light. Be sure they dry out between waterings. Don't let those nursery pots stay damp.
Iris

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Re: Identifying olive trees

Post  RKatzin on Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:33 pm

Here's a russian olive, considered an invasive species wherever it grows.
Your first pic is a Lil' Ole. You usually find them at garden centers pruned up into lollipops or some awful shape requiring total redo

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Olives

Post  jake4bonsai on Mon Dec 26, 2011 3:06 am

So they should stay cool but above freezing even though there a tropical? Do they need a rest period then, or i can keep them around 73 degrees with high light and keep them growing? The funny thing is the guy that gave them to me is only a temperate species bonsai guy and someone gave him these two olives and he had them for 3 years and kept them in a unheated greenhouse even in the winter and he said he knew they were tropical but he said theyd been frozen solid several times every winter for 3 years and they suffered some die back but they did live. Theyll never be exsposed to anything like that again. Thats why it was such a big deal for me to find out what they were because he was telling me they are tropical but he also told me about them freezing several times each winter and living so it had me all confused. I belive him, hes been doing bonsai 40 years and learned from two of John Nakas students, Ben Okie and Richard Strauss. So i know he knows what hes doing but he just doesnt like tropicals, he doesnt know much about them for the main reason he doesnt concider tropical plants to be real bonsai. Thanks you for helping me you guys, i appriciate it. I thought it might have been a european olive because i just found a video yesterday of a guy working on a euro. olive and it looked identical to mine. So thank you for the clairification everyone that participated in educating me! Jake

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Re: Identifying olive trees

Post  JimLewis on Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:23 pm

jake4bonsai wrote:So they should stay cool but above freezing even though there a tropical?

Olea europea is NOT a tropical. They grow in a Mediterranean climate (warm temperate -- but dry). They will survive the upper 30s (F), but will do better when it is warmer.


Do they need a rest period then, or i can keep them around 73 degrees with high light and keep them growing? The funny thing is the guy that gave them to me is only a temperate species bonsai guy and someone gave him these two olives and he had them for 3 years and kept them in a unheated greenhouse even in the winter and he said he knew they were tropical but he said theyd been frozen solid several times every winter for 3 years and they suffered some die back but they did live. Theyll never be exsposed to anything like that again.

They will slow down in cool weather. They probably will do OK if kept at a constant temperature, but most NON-tropicals do prefer some kind of a rest, however brief.

It is a mistake to baby your trees. READ about them (Google is great, Google is good . . . but books are better) and learn as much as possible, then try to meet their needs.

Thats why it was such a big deal for me to find out what they were because he was telling me they are tropical but he also told me about them freezing several times each winter and living so it had me all confused.


Not all tropicals automatically die when the temps drop below freezing -- tho them may loose their leaves anf be very unhappy. But this tree isn't a tropical.


but he just doesnt like tropicals,


Good man <g>

i just found a video yesterday of a guy working on a euro. olive and it looked identical to mine. So thank you for the clairification everyone that participated in educating me! Jake

Do yourself a favor and don't rely only on what you find on the WWW. You can be misled by crappy information very easily. If you don't want to buy a few good tree books, use your local public library. If they don't have something, they can and will get it for you.

Your little trees look to be healthy, but they are pretty small to do much bonsai work on. The taller one might be chopped by about 1/3 then allowed to grow as many side branches as it can or will. Two inexpensive but good bonsai books that discuss this species and many others in some detail are:

RD Home Handbooks' "Bonsai" by Harry Tomlinson. Reader's digest Books. It was $16.00. It is a pocketbook-size replica of Tomlinson's "The Complete Book of Bonsai."

The other is the "Simon and Schuster's Guide to Bonsai." It was $14.00.

Both my be out of print now (I haven't checked lately), but both are usually available at www.abebooks.com or amazon.com as used books.


Last edited by JimLewis on Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Identifying olive trees

Post  RKatzin on Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:03 pm

I have a copy of "Simon and Schuster's Guide to Bonsai" I'll donate to the cause. It was one of my first and a good general bonsai book. Lots of interesting tidbits in the species section.

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Olives

Post  jake4bonsai on Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:14 am

Thank you very much for all the info everyone! I am going to cut them back a little and just let them grow for a couple years and watch for good growth to start working with. I have read every book on bonsai that my library has available and many others out there. I buy as many videos and books as i can and download as many videos as i can from youtube. I load them onto my computer and watch them as i work on my trees. I also use a kindle from amazon to get alot of bonsai books at cheaper prices rather than pay retail. Ive been into bonsai a year now and i feel i have learned alot only being in it for a year due to all the information i have avaiable. I am pretty good and picking out the ones that are good and the ones that are full of crap. Graham potter i talk to via email and watch and follow all his videos. Erik Wigart is another on tropicals. Ryan Neil, Harry Harrington, Paul Pikel, Marco Invernizzi, Masahiko Kimura, Mauro Stemberger, John Geanangel, Arthur Joura, are just a few of my favorites. I havent read or researched alot on olives until now since i had two givin to me. Ive been wanting some olives to work with and now ill learn everything i possibly can now that i have a couple as they grow. That way by the time thier ready to be worked ill somewhat know what im doing with them. It was really just knowing exactly what i had so i can care for them horticulturely was the most important aspect so far. Is there anything different or special about olives as far as styling and working for bonsai cultivation compared to other species? What did you mean by youll donate this book to the cause RKatzin?

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Re: Identifying olive trees

Post  my nellie on Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:19 am

Good for you then, jake4fonsai!
But... no matter how much you already have learned/known/read/watched, you can be absolutely sure that you have a lot more to learn. So, keep on reading and learning in order to be prepared to practice and apply.

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Re: Identifying olive trees

Post  RKatzin on Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:36 am

Hi Jake, I meant if you want this book you can have it, that's all.

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lots of olive info

Post  rock on Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:33 am

Jake you might like...
http://youtu.be/e5OvAyhlwUY

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Thanks

Post  jake4bonsai on Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:29 am

Yes rock i do like the videos. Thank you, I hadnt found that one. I dont know why but i hadnt, lol. Thanks again, Jake

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Re: Identifying olive trees

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