Carving question

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Carving question

Post  Ted Clausen on Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:48 pm

There are plenty of videos out there demonstrating the initial block carving of deadwood. Most of the artists caution that a further refinement of the deadwood will take place in coming months as the wood seasons. But I cant seem to locate any videos of this refinement work. Can anyone point me in the right direction? thanks.

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Re: Carving question

Post  marcus watts on Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:41 am

Ted Clausen wrote:There are plenty of videos out there demonstrating the initial block carving of deadwood. Most of the artists caution that a further refinement of the deadwood will take place in coming months as the wood seasons. But I cant seem to locate any videos of this refinement work. Can anyone point me in the right direction? thanks.

its much harder to find good sources of detail work - personally i think the utubers like to make videos with their power tools, carvers, grinders and chainsaws but then dont have the patience, or even the skill maybe? to do a good finished job with hand tools. There are good pictures of Tony around using sand blasting but this is a technique not freely available to everyone to try (unless you buy a sandblaster to practice with Very Happy )

If you look up hand peeling wood fibres with jin pliers this will show the most realistic results as the work uses the true grain of the wood - quite often people using machines to carve go across the grain at times, then, when the wood dries and cracks it looks totally wrong, like a checker board.

cheers Marcus

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Re: Carving question

Post  JimLewis on Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:03 pm

Not that I'm the world's best carver, but I use a Dremel tool and router to do the "rough finishing" then a Dremel and various wire brushes to finish it off. The idea is to follow the grain and make it natural looking by eliminating all evidence of tool use.

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Re: Carving question

Post  stavros on Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:45 pm

Ted Clausen wrote:There are plenty of videos out there demonstrating the initial block carving of deadwood. Most of the artists caution that a further refinement of the deadwood will take place in coming months as the wood seasons. But I cant seem to locate any videos of this refinement work. Can anyone point me in the right direction? thanks.

you could probably see some glimpses of detailed work in Graham Potter's videos (Kaizen bonsai)

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Re: Carving question

Post  will baddeley on Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:46 pm

Even the Kaizen videos don't show much other than the initial block carving. I would imagine for a commercial enterprize, it is difficult to justify the hours and hours it takes to put in the final details and keep the tree affordable. Videos of block carving are dramatic and relatively instant too. The fine detailing can be boring to watch. Once the weather has warmed slightly, I will try to put together a short vid to show some of the methods I use in the detailing.Tearing techniques as Marcus mentions are all well and good but limited to more fibrous species. The majority of trees that I work on will not tear at all so a mixture of big power tools, small and more precise rotary cutters, blow torch, sanding flaps and scalpels are what I use to get the required result. The area around my thumb is more or less finished work but some detail needs adding in the top section of this Yew.


Last edited by will baddeley on Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:26 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Carving question

Post  Rob Kempinski on Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:02 pm

An important carving tool is one rarely mentioned, time. If you lay the ground work with carving tools as mentioned above and then let the wood age, it looks best.
The BCI magazine, Bonsai and Stone Appreciation, ran a great article by Masimo Bandera about how he carved and aged a jin on one of his mountain collected trees. I've included a cell phone shot of a portion of the article intro. Amazing carving work. If you're not a BCI member, why not? Also there are a few back issues left of the magazine. It was issue 2011 number 3. (The same issue that featured a photo of Will Baddeley Razz ). See the BCI web page for details.





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Re: Carving question

Post  will baddeley on Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:12 pm

[quote="Rob Kempinski"]An important carving tool is one rarely mentioned, time. If you lay the ground work with carving tools as mentioned above and then let the wood age, it looks best.
The BCI magazine, Bonsai and Stone Appreciation, ran a great article by Masimo Bandera about how he carved and aged a jin on one of his mountain collected trees. I've included a cell phone shot of a portion of the article intro. Amazing carving work. If you're not a BCI member, why not? Also there are a few back issues left of the magazine. It was issue 2011 number 3. (The same issue that featured a photo of Will Baddeley Razz ). See the BCI web page for details.

Didn't know about this Rob. Was it a funny picture of me? They usually are!!




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Re: Carving question

Post  Rob Kempinski on Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:51 pm

will baddeley wrote:
Rob Kempinski wrote:An important carving tool is one rarely mentioned, time. If you lay the ground work with carving tools as mentioned above and then let the wood age, it looks best.
The BCI magazine, Bonsai and Stone Appreciation, ran a great article by Masimo Bandera about how he carved and aged a jin on one of his mountain collected trees. I've included a cell phone shot of a portion of the article intro. Amazing carving work. If you're not a BCI member, why not? Also there are a few back issues left of the magazine. It was issue 2011 number 3. (The same issue that featured a photo of Will Baddeley Razz ). See the BCI web page for details.

Didn't know about this Rob. Was it a funny picture of me? They usually are!!

Better than your avatar! It's an action shot of you working on a pine tree Salvatore was doing at the Best of British.

The photo was taken by Karen Abella (I believe).
BCI needs more UK members - lots to read about.

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Re: Carving question

Post  will baddeley on Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:58 am

can you give some more info on the BCI Rob? Maybe in another thread. Unfortunately the work on that Pine at the Best of British, proved too much too soon. Sad

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thanks marcus

Post  Ted Clausen on Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:13 am

marcus watts wrote:
Ted Clausen wrote:There are plenty of videos out there demonstrating the initial block carving of deadwood. Most of the artists caution that a further refinement of the deadwood will take place in coming months as the wood seasons. But I cant seem to locate any videos of this refinement work. Can anyone point me in the right direction? thanks.

its much harder to find good sources of detail work - personally i think the utubers like to make videos with their power tools, carvers, grinders and chainsaws but then dont have the patience, or even the skill maybe? to do a good finished job with hand tools. There are good pictures of Tony around using sand blasting but this is a technique not freely available to everyone to try (unless you buy a sandblaster to practice with Very Happy )

If you look up hand peeling wood fibres with jin pliers this will show the most realistic results as the work uses the true grain of the wood - quite often people using machines to carve go across the grain at times, then, when the wood dries and cracks it looks totally wrong, like a checker board.

cheers Marcus

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Re: Carving question

Post  Ted Clausen on Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:15 am

Rob Kempinski wrote:An important carving tool is one rarely mentioned, time. If you lay the ground work with carving tools as mentioned above and then let the wood age, it looks best.
The BCI magazine, Bonsai and Stone Appreciation, ran a great article by Masimo Bandera about how he carved and aged a jin on one of his mountain collected trees. I've included a cell phone shot of a portion of the article intro. Amazing carving work. If you're not a BCI member, why not? Also there are a few back issues left of the magazine. It was issue 2011 number 3. (The same issue that featured a photo of Will Baddeley Razz ). See the BCI web page for details.


Thanks for the input Rob. Much appreciated


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Re: Carving question

Post  Ted Clausen on Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:46 am

will baddeley wrote:Even the Kaizen videos don't show much other than the initial block carving. I would imagine for a commercial enterprize, It is difficult to justify the hours and hours it takes to put in the final details and keep the tree affordable. Videos of block carving are dramatic and relatively instant too. The fine detailing can be boring to watch. Once the weather has warmed slightly, I will try to put together a short vid to show some of the methods I use in the detailing.Tearing techniques as Marcus mentions are all well and good but limited to more fibrous species. The majority of trees that I work on will not tear at all so a mixture of big power tools, small and more precise rotary cutters, blow torch, sanding flaps and scalpels are what I use to get the required result. The area around my thumb is more or less finished work but some detail needs adding in the top section of this Yew.




Thanks Will. If you could put something together I'm sure many besides myself would greatly appreciate the effort. I suspect you're correct that the availability of so many block carving vids is at least partly due to dramatic effect. And while I'm sure the detail work may not be as visually compelling, I still believe a lot of people would be interested in learning about the subsequent stages of carving. I know I would. I'm very appreciative of those vids that are currently available. But its also kind of frustrating to hear time and again, "this work isn't done yet," without being able to see exactly how the end result is achieved. If you were able to provide something, it would probably be, as far as I can tell, a unique contribution.

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Re: Carving question

Post  JimLewis on Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:47 pm

will baddeley wrote:can you give some more info on the BCI Rob? Maybe in another thread. Unfortunately the work on that Pine at the Best of British, proved too much too soon. :(

www.bonsai-bci.com

_________________
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Re: Carving question

Post  jrodriguez on Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:27 pm

Ted Clausen wrote:There are plenty of videos out there demonstrating the initial block carving of deadwood. Most of the artists caution that a further refinement of the deadwood will take place in coming months as the wood seasons. But I cant seem to locate any videos of this refinement work. Can anyone point me in the right direction? thanks.

Mr. Clausen,

Please visit www.sidiao.com . We have no videos, but our pictorials are quite detailed. It should give you a good perspective on shari/jin carving art.

Kind regards,

Jose Luis

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Re: Carving question

Post  will baddeley on Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:40 pm

Thanks for the link to SiDiao Jose Luis. Some absolutely stunning deadwood creation. With Pine and Juniper, these fibre tearing techniques work extremely well but as I mentioned earlier, many trees will not tear like this. The Premna on the link is a good example of this and the carving looks unrefined in comparison. I will be visiting this link on a regular basis though. Cool

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Re: Carving question

Post  Ted Clausen on Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:29 pm

jrodriguez wrote:
Ted Clausen wrote:There are plenty of videos out there demonstrating the initial block carving of deadwood. Most of the artists caution that a further refinement of the deadwood will take place in coming months as the wood seasons. But I cant seem to locate any videos of this refinement work. Can anyone point me in the right direction? thanks.

Mr. Clausen,

Please visit www.sidiao.com . We have no videos, but our pictorials are quite detailed. It should give you a good perspective on shari/jin carving art.

Kind regards,

Jose Luis

Thankyou Jose Luis.

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Re: Carving question

Post  Rob Kempinski on Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:07 pm

will baddeley wrote:can you give some more info on the BCI Rob? Maybe in another thread. Unfortunately the work on that Pine at the Best of British, proved too much too soon. Sad

Yes Will I made an announcement in the IBC announcement section especially about the new electronic membership.

Sorry to hear about the pine. Was a great looking piece of material.

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Re: Carving question

Post  jrodriguez on Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:26 pm

will baddeley wrote:Thanks for the link to SiDiao Jose Luis. Some absolutely stunning deadwood creation. With Pine and Juniper, these fibre tearing techniques work extremely well but as I mentioned earlier, many trees will not tear like this. The Premna on the link is a good example of this and the carving looks unrefined in comparison. I will be visiting this link on a regular basis though. Cool

Premna wood is done by mechanical Sidiao, with air tools. Because the fiber is tighter, it is difficult to tear the fibers, like you mention. The only thing we do in this case is eliminate the redundant portion and keep only those that contribute well to the design.

Should you have any questions about this site, feel free to contact me.

Kind regards,

Jose Luis

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