Question...............

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Question...............

Post  yorasta on Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:15 pm

Good evening , are beginner in this art Bonsai , I am from Romania ,as title says, and I have a question for you all , I have seen many pictures as you use for bonsai soil brown granular , as it is called or how to use those granules and containing about them or who can actually give me a description or something about those granules , Thank you very much Very Happy

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Re: Question...............

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:24 pm

There can a great discussion on bonsai soil among growers. Akadama is a soil used in Japan on some trees and imported at great cost to some countries. More important than the make up of your soil is the way you care for your trees and sometimes the species of the tree. A basic soil used here in Florida is 1/3 Turface (a fired clay, it really looks like someone took as Terra Cota pot and broke it into small pieces.) 1/3 Lava or small gravel and 1/3 sterilzed compost.
The most important thing about a soil is that it be well draining, being too wet kills more Bonsai than anything else.
I have black pine planted in crushed granite. I have junipers growing in pure Turface. I have other trees growing in a commercial potting mix that uses coir ( a product made from ground up coconut husks)
I repeat it is about drainage and your watering habits.

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Post  bonsaisr on Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:45 pm

Never mind exotic granules. Start with 1/3 gravel (like aquarium gravel), 1/3 fired clay, and one third organic matter, then adjust it by your experience.
There is a European product called Seramis which is the equivalent of our Turface. You can also use Haydite, which is sold all over Europe. There is a cat litter in Europe that is used by bonsai growers. Ask our UK members to get the right brand.
For organic matter, don't use peat moss or anything similar if you can help it. Your best bet is chopped up pine bark.
Iris

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Re: Question...............

Post  davids on Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:44 pm

Hi Yorasta,

Maybe this can help

http://walterpallbonsaiarticles.blogspot.com/search/label/Romanian


However as Billy said a whole book could be written on ideal soil mixtures but I agree with him, a good drainage is a must.

Best


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Re: Question...............

Post  mike page on Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:23 pm

IMHO, the ideal bonsai growing medium is all non-organic, particle size 1/8 inch to 1/4 inch in size. It must hold moisture, but quickly drain off all excessive moisture. It should require at least daily watering, and during hot weather, twice daily watering.
My growing medium for many years is this: http://www.dyna-gro.com/products.htm

Dyna-gro products are uniformly excellent, and I'm not paid to say this. In addition to the growing medium, I use their plant nutrients.

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Re: Question...............

Post  drgonzo on Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:07 am

I was trying so hard not to get drawn into another soil discussion....but I failed.

That Dyna-rock looks funky if I could only find it locally I'd give it a go.

I must also add that I have been using the Dyna-grow 7-9-5 urea free fertilizer for a few months now and I have become a true believer in urea free fertilizers as a result..EXCELLENT product!

I agree with Mike and find 100% inorganic as an excellent medium, you guys all probably know at this point I do pure Turface.
-Jay


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Post  bonsaisr on Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:37 am

Dyna-Rok is sold by orchid supply houses. Check with Jim Marlow in Scottsville. jim@marlowsorchids.com
http://www.MarlowOrchids.com
If you are in Syracuse, try the Hydroponic Shop on Erie Boulevard.
Iris

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Re: Question...............

Post  drgonzo on Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:48 am

bonsaisr wrote:Dyna-Rok is sold by orchid supply houses. Check with Jim Marlow in Scottsville. jim@marlowsorchids.com
http://www.MarlowOrchids.com
If you are in Syracuse, try the Hydroponic Shop on Erie Boulevard.
Iris

Marlow Orchids..
Thats right near to where the Expo will be in June, you know what I'll probably do is nip over there after the show say on Saturday early evening and check him out, or maybe on my way home on Sunday thank you for the recommendation Iris. I will keep that spot in mind, the garden pictures just look wonderful!

Bad enough to spend two days at the bonsai show and then trek over to an Orchid house? Oh Boy!
-Jay

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Re: Question...............

Post  JimLewis on Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:24 am

mike page wrote:IMHO, the ideal bonsai growing medium is all non-organic, particle size 1/8 inch to 1/4 inch in size. It must hold moisture, but quickly drain off all excessive moisture. It should require at least daily watering, and during hot weather, twice daily watering.
My growing medium for many years is this: http://www.dyna-gro.com/products.htm

Dyna-gro products are uniformly excellent, and I'm not paid to say this. In addition to the growing medium, I use their plant nutrients.

It isn't cheap -- $60-$70+ per 1.4 cu ft. bag. But it sounds interesting. Better yet, there are several dealers "near" me.

_________________
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Re: Question...............

Post  drgonzo on Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:31 am

JimLewis wrote:

It isn't cheap -- $60-$70+ per 1.4 cu ft. bag.

ouch, that makes my 'Cheap Yankee Bone' ache.
-Jay

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Re: Question...............

Post  coh on Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:16 am

Jay, the hydroponic shop in Rochester lists the dyna-gro media (dyna-rok) at $53.95 for the 1.4 cu ft (40 L) bag. I'm not sure how that compares volume-wise to the 50 pound bags of turface that I can get for about $18 (not gonna trudge out to the barn at this hour to check!).

Anyone who has used it (Mike) - do you have to sift out a significant amount of fines, or is it pretty much all useable material? I do sift out a considerable amount of the turface, but not sure if enough to bring the prices into a similar range.

Chris

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Re: Question...............

Post  mike page on Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:56 am

coh wrote:Jay, the hydroponic shop in Rochester lists the dyna-gro media (dyna-rok) at $53.95 for the 1.4 cu ft (40 L) bag. I'm not sure how that compares volume-wise to the 50 pound bags of turface that I can get for about $18 (not gonna trudge out to the barn at this hour to check!).

Anyone who has used it (Mike) - do you have to sift out a significant amount of fines, or is it pretty much all useable material? I do sift out a considerable amount of the turface, but not sure if enough to bring the prices into a similar range.

Chris

There are a small amount fines, but not enough to make sifting necessary. I find that the first watering after potting will wash them out.

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Re: Question...............

Post  fiona on Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:07 pm

Great, but the guy lives in Romania and is a self-confessed beginner so although we've had some interesting responses mebbe it would be more helpful if some of the central European bonsai people on the forum could chip in with what they use/have used in the past with success.

Yorasta, if you're just loooking for general information on bonsai soils, THIS article is a good start point. There are another couple of articles on that same website for when you want more info.

If you are looking for specific recommendations of what to use, remember first and foremost it needs to suit the types of tree and your own climate. For what it's worth, here in central Scotland where we have temperatures between winter lows of -10C and summer highs of 25C and with a high amount of all-year round rainfall, I use a general mix which I get online from Kaizen bonsai (you can find out about it by clicking HERE )and which is delivered to me. It suits pretty much every tree type I have.

There is so much to learn about bonsai that to be honest I'd take the simple route on soils just now while you learn about the trees themselves. A basic mix is perfectly okay, and all you really need to worry about is (as Billy pointed out already) how well it drains - free enough to take away excess water but good enough to hold sufficient water for your tree's needs. My other major guiding "rule" is simply that for my smaller trees (Shohin) I use a soil with smaller particles. Larger trees = larger particle size.

Hope that helps.

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Re: Question...............

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:37 pm

Although not a "rule" weight is an important consideration. For smaller pots I use a mix with "pea gravel" but for larger trees try to use Lava.

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Re: Question...............

Post  yorasta on Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:00 pm

some people use something like this http://bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basicscatlitter.htm

yorasta
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Re: Question...............

Post  sunip on Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:16 pm

yorasta wrote:some people use something like this http://bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basicscatlitter.htm
Hello Yorasta,
The diatomite is great and cheap, i hope you can find some in Romania.
How about some members of Serbia or Bulgaria maybe they have some local suggestions?
Sunip Wink

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Re: Question...............

Post  andretoledo on Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:41 pm

I think these links could help

http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com/2007/03/baked-loam-as-main-ingredient-for.html

http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com/2010/06/feeding-substrate-and-watering-english.html


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Re: Question...............

Post  yorasta on Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:25 pm

Thank you all for your help I'm glad I learned something useful from you all

yorasta
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