quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

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quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  NeilDellinger on Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:07 am

I just bought this pot made by Michael Hagedorn. Does the flaw detract from the value....it refuses to be removed. Very interested in your thoughts. BTW, I posted in the bonsai section because the pot forum does not seem to get the traffic. Wink

Thanks for the insight.
Neil



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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  Russell Coker on Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:23 am

Hmmm, I've never seen our pot heads shying away from questions, and seems like they'd best answer your question.

I don't know anything about Michael Hagedorn pots, are they valueable? Can't help with the stain/scuff.

R

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  mike page on Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:38 am

One way to disguise a defect in a pot is to get some shoe polish that is as close as you can find to the color of the pot and rub it in. This has worked for me in the past. If you don't like the result, use alcohol to remove the shoe polish.

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  GaryWood on Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:51 am

Neil, value is very subjective but a Hagedorne pot will definitely hold it's value. Some people think an artifact in the glaze surface is a minus and some think it's a plus. That's up to the buyer and seller to determine. I personally think it enhances the value and would not try to disguise it but show it.
Wood

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  NeilDellinger on Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:11 am

Not sure I agree completely Gary. It appears to be damage as opposed to a glaze defect. I have a few nice pots with glaze defects as you referenced & agree they add to the pot's unique quality. But this is not glaze.

Agree that not disguising it is good, especially if its being sold. Hiding it while selling its another story though eh.

Thanks for the input!

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  GaryWood on Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:16 am

Very Happy

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  Russell Coker on Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:17 am

Gary, I'm all for "mistakes" and "flaws" in glazes - but that's not what this looks like. If I kept and used this pot this would be on the backside.

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  GaryWood on Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:29 am

Russell, I think everyone should do what they wish within their vision of bonsai, art, or life in general. I see this particular artifact as a loading kiln "kiss"
Neil said it wouldn't "come off" that means it was fired in. An Iron Red glaze pot bumped another color pot in the loading of the kiln and there was an artifact "smudge". Anyone can hide or show or put it in the closet as they choose. I would would show the "kiss"
Wood

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  Russell Coker on Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:37 am

OK, Gary. To each his own, I guess. I suppose it depends on whether one see it as a "kiss" or a boil...

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  GaryWood on Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:39 am

Very Happy

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  NeilDellinger on Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:47 am


Gary & Russ,
Thanks for the differing opinions. The pot forum never sees good action. Smile

So, the question is...would you buy this "kiss" if it was clearly visible? None of that "if the price was right" BS either. Straight up yes or no.

Respect your opinions guys.
Neil

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  drgonzo on Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:02 am

NeilDellinger wrote:
Gary & Russ,
Thanks for the differing opinions. The pot forum never sees good action. Smile

So, the question is...would you buy this "kiss" if it was clearly visible? None of that "if the price was right" BS either. Straight up yes or no.

Respect your opinions guys.
Neil

I hate to say it but I'd see it as a scratch and try to find another that was unscratched.
-Jay

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  mesabax on Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:15 am

That little "kiss", or scratch, isn't a big deal. I'd call it "patina" (sounds better).....and it wouldn't phase me in the very least. It almost looks like some sort of Chinese or Japanese character...find out which one, and you have yourself an original.... cheers

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  GaryWood on Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:28 am

Neil, no bull shit, it's a plus to me. BUT, that's me and I don't mean to speak for anyone or segment but me. I'm a potter and I see these things on occasion and understand the different mindset between flaw and "wabi sabi" so don't let others dictate your aesthetic sensibilities. If you like good, if you don't, that's ok also.
Wood

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  NeilDellinger on Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:39 am

Thanks Gary. Appreciate the input.


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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  JMcCoy on Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:24 am

To me it looks like soft metal was rubbed against the side of the pot, leaving a mark. Could be lead or zinc, or silver, but most likely was aluminum (probably bonsai wire). If it is this, then no solvent would remove the stain. You could try a white rubber eraser or another gentle abrasive and it may come off.

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  abcd on Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:54 am

to give the illusion of old aged pot , i use olive oil, then graphite pencil , then polish with the palm of the hand , I think the default will be smaller.

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  marcus watts on Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:09 am

my personal opinion on this one is the mark looks too much like a scuff or scratch that appeared later as it shows motion and it is on the pots' widest point. If i was buying the pot to put a tree in i'd look for 30-40% reduction in asking price - it is now a 2nd

If i was buying the pot because I believed the potters work will become more collectable or more valuble I wouldnt touch it - at the end of the day potters produce many many pots while they are alive and working so there is generally a plentiful supply until they stop work for one reason or another. Micheal is still a young man, so there will be a lot more pots produced in future years

I guess the only reason to buy a damaged or 2nd quality pot as a collector would be if it was numbered 1, or had a special story that could be authenticated. ie the pot was one he made in japan and while packing up to come home Kimura popped round and while deciding if he liked the pot scratched it with his watch strap...... Very Happy - or the pot was the only one to survive an earthquake or tornado Very Happy


just my opinion on speculating on the futures (pot) market

Best wishes Marcus

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  Mark on Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:39 am

Neil,

Michael is still a young man but is NOT making Bonsai Pots anymore. They are selling for more now.
Why not contact Micheal directly and ask him about how the pot should be viewed or how he would treat it.
http://crataegus.com/

Mark

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  marcus watts on Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:53 am

Mark wrote:Neil,

Michael is still a young man but is NOT making Bonsai Pots anymore. They are selling for more now.
Why not contact Micheal directly and ask him about how the pot should be viewed or how he would treat it.
http://crataegus.com/

Mark

But you cant catagorically say he wont again in the future - and a 2nd is still a 2nd so will sell for less, especially when its just external damage and not a fancifull kiln blemish - they are semi natural and we all like them Very Happy

cheers Marcus

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  NeilDellinger on Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:09 pm

I tend to agree with Marcus. Its not a kiln blemish, and I'm pretty sure Mr. Kimura didn't do it Smile

I did buy this pot as a "collector" and not to use...at least immediately.

Its a second, the guy I bought it from was either concealing it or was completely ignorant of how this mar would detract from the value.

I'll see if he's got solid values/ethics and will work something out with me.

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  Ryan B on Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:52 pm

Neil,
I think The scratch does detract from the value a little, but 30-40%? No way. 15% of it's current value, which I place a little higher than 150, 15% max. I've got a big stripy one a chipped foot(I'm sure you know the one Very Happy) and I know in The long haul it's negligible. Because Hagedorn pots are soooo rarely seen for sale on the open market(thats only the second ive seen on eBay in 4 years) the pot will still increase in value. Michael says he NOT firing up The kiln again, ever, but even if he does, print that eBay reciept and it's still a 1st period Hagedorn. 10-20 years from now Hagedorns will be every bit as valuable and tough to find as Aspinals are today. Look at those, chipped and beat up and still selling for 500$ and up up up! Your investment is sound in the long term. I'd suggest using it too, patina will cover that scratch in a decade of use.

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Hagedorn Pots Wanted

Post  reddog on Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:55 pm

This may be a little off topic but if anybody is interested in selling their Hagedorn pots please PM me.
thanks,
John

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

Post  dick benbow on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:24 am

bonsai northwest had two last time in.....someone sold their pots and was 3 that came in. I got one of them.

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Re: quick question Michael Hagedorn pot

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