What do you think about this?

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What do you think about this?

Post  Guest on Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:12 am

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Re: What do you think about this?

Post  Jesse McMahon on Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:24 am

Reminds me visually of feather duster tubeworms. What is it, exactly?

Jesse

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Re: What do you think about this?

Post  Guest on Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:28 am

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What do you think about this?

Post  bonsaisr on Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:14 am

Doesn't look anything like my pygmy date palm, Phoenix roebelenii, which is from southeast Asia.
Mine has been called a bonsai by courtesy.
Iris



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Re: What do you think about this?

Post  drgonzo on Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:17 am

I like the container you have that in Iris, It looks like something I've seen come out Of Nick Lenz's kiln...That would be a nice match for Wisteria as well.
Jay

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Re: What do you think about this?

Post  marcus watts on Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:03 am

essential bottom branch missing off the first curve Very Happy

seriously though its just a plant that happens to be sat in a 'bonsai' pot - unless it was a new line they were getting ready to export when you were on the nursery ?? Laughing Laughing

regards Marcus

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Re: What do you think about this?

Post  landerloos on Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:35 am

A palm tree will never be a bonsai, why you ask?
Palmtrees are not trees at all, as a companion plant maybe???

Peter

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Re: What do you think about this?

Post  Randy_Davis on Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:32 pm

landerloos wrote:A palm tree will never be a bonsai, why you ask?

Why won't a palm tree be a bonsai?


landerloos wrote:Palmtrees are not trees at all, as a companion plant maybe???

Neither are 50 percent of the plant material used for bonsai! (i.e. shrubs are not trees either and they are used all the time and called bonsai. I'll be happy to list a few if it will add to the conversation)


Canary Island date palm = Phoenix canariensis

I rather like palms as miniature trees in pots. They are intresting subjects and difficult just to be able to miniaturize in a container, not to mention the time involved to grow them. Imagine what this palm ls like in it's natural state in the ground. Fronds are 12 to 20 feet in length and to get them less than 24 inches long is a feat all in itself and should be celebrated. I for one dislike the closed attitude towards minature trees by most bonsai enthusiasts these days. Palms have a rich history as being bonsai in Japan and can be seen in some of the older publications (original issue of Yoshimura/Halford's - The japanese art of Minature trees and Landscapes, page 110 with reference on). In particular, Sago Palm (Cycas revoluta) has been used as bonsai in japan for centuries.

just my old tarnished 2 cents


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Re: What do you think about this?

Post  Tom Simonyi on Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:58 pm

Thank you, Randy, for putting into words what I have thought for some time.
Tom

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Re: What do you think about this?

Post  Guest on Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:58 pm

Its about aesthetics, not the specimens. Agree with Peter.

Regards
Morten

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Re: What do you think about this?

Post  landerloos on Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:03 pm

morten albek wrote:Its about aesthetics, not the specimens. Agree with Peter.

Regards
Morten

Okay let me put i this way, never seen a palmtree shaped as a tree, shrubs on the other hand I did.
So Morten is wright, its about aesthetics.
Didnt say they couldnt be fun, and neither said they where easy to dwarf, but to me no bonsai sorry.

Peter

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Re: What do you think about this?

Post  Guest on Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:56 pm

It is not a bonsai. And a palm cannot be turned into a bonsai, even if the Japanese says it is so. Some people probably will just accept what the Japanese says is true is true without giving it a second thought, but some are also analyzing things based on what is logically true.

Questions if you may, if it is a bonsai?.
Other than being a tree in a pot,
A bonsai should look anatomically balanced- base, trunk, branch, twigs and leaves (for most species) proportion correspondingly to the portrayed image as a tree we found in nature.
------Palm trees in miniaturized form do not exhibit this character of an ideal bonsai and and would be genetically impossible to achieved this unless science would intervene with its genetic composition. Miniaturized palm trees looks like "freak palm" trees rather than a bonsai, Why? Its trunks are short and sometimes stout compared to a real palmtree, others are bended abnormally to make it short, palms/leaves are not and will never be reduced to attain a proportional size compared to its trunk and base.
A bonsai Should look matured, attaining all its character of being a matured tree like thick branches, ramified branch formation, matured looking trunk etc.
------ Matured palm trees in nature looks tall and slender and the palms mass(canopy) is less than the height of the trunk. In what is perceived to be "bonsai" palm, the canopy is most of the time (if not always) bigger in volume and height compared to the trunk.

Try to google search Palm bonsai and you'll see nothing that looks like a real palm tree compared with the same specie found in nature, it has no semblance of any sort to the natural tree. If anybody can point me to one please do so.

As a person living in a country with all sorts (probably 90% of all palm tree species) of palm trees...I'll be very very happy to see my dearest palms in a miniature form but naturally looking palm form.

from a guy living under a palm tree all his life,
jun Razz






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Re: What do you think about this?

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:42 pm

Bonsai or Not Bonsai

A Palm has certain characteristics.

It can't be pruned, except to remove old fronds, because it is a monocot. It grows from only one point, if that bud is damaged, the Palm dies.

You can grow a monocot in a bonsai pot and it might be attractive, but like other things, Is it a Bonsai?

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Re: What do you think about this?

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:43 pm

In Florida we see a lot of Cycads sold in Bonsai pots. They are also monocots. And although they may look like Palms they are in a different family.

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Re: What do you think about this?

Post  bumblebee on Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:25 pm

Bonsai or no, I like it! Can you tell us how old and how big this tree is? Is it yours?

Libby

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What do you think about this?

Post  bonsaisr on Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:27 pm

drgonzo wrote:I like the container you have that in Iris, It looks like something I've seen come out Of Nick Lenz's kiln...
Jay
Actually, it is a Nick Lenz pot (originally for a different tree). It is a little too small, but I cram it in by root pruning every year or so.
Iris


Last edited by bonsaisr on Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:30 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Finish the post)

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What do you think about this?

Post  bonsaisr on Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:41 pm

First of all, a cycad is not a flowering plant altogether. It is a primitive gymnosperm, related to conifers. However, the same problems arise in calling a cycad a bonsai.
I will be the first to agree that it is a stretch to call my palm tree a bonsai, although compared to a normal tree of the same species it is definitely miniaturized. Yes, there is a problem with proportions. I wish I could reduce the size of the fronds further, although they are much smaller than standard. But if you are going to criticize proportions, you will have to throw out all those sumo Ficus that are equally out of proportion.
Iris

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Re: What do you think about this?

Post  Russell Coker on Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:47 pm



bonsaisr wrote:First of all, a cycad is not a flowering plant altogether. It is a primitive gymnosperm, related to conifers.

Good catch iris. Yes, neither monocot or dicot - same for ginkgo.

How big is that thing anyway??

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Re: What do you think about this?

Post  Damienindesert on Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:04 pm

I think that Phoenix is bloody awesome! I see no reason why it can't be termed under (let's face it), the very vague parameters that define a bonsai. It is clearly mature and old, and much tinier than one you might find in the wild. The fronds are crazily small when compared to the Canary Island date palms that used to tower over our house as a kid. Before reading the initial post, and just looking at the pic, I thought it was a species of cycas. It reminds me of the Encephalartus cycadifolium we have growing at home.
Incidentally, environmental conditions have a lot of influence on the overall look of wild palms. Jun, you're in a very stable tropical, or subtropical environment, where elegant, slender palms would be what you'd expect. Here in the Middle East, the edible date palms look like this when they grow in deep valleys with regular water and shelter from the wind. Where you find them on exposed hillsides, they can be very compact, twisted and severely stunted, with scrappy little fronds.
Cycads have the ability to push out secondary and tertiary buds in instances where the primary terminus is compromised, and even sometimes just because they can Cool . If you visit the Modjadji Cycad reserve in Polokwane, South Africa, you can find ancient specimens that have bent over themselves many times in surreal twists and loops, often producing several heads each.

That little palm would take pride of place on my bench. Well done.

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Re: What do you think about this?

Post  bucknbonsai on Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:04 pm

billy,
I have several ponytail palms (houseplants, not bonsai) that were killed back by frost to the "trunk/bulb" and now they have about 20 stalks. I know ponytail palms probably are not real palms but what are they, monocots?

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Re: What do you think about this?

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:26 pm

bucknbonsai wrote:billy,
I have several ponytail palms (houseplants, not bonsai) that were killed back by frost to the "trunk/bulb" and now they have about 20 stalks. I know ponytail palms probably are not real palms but what are they, monocots?

Not sure about being monocots, but I think so. I know that some monocots such as the so called Pony Tail Palm will sprout multiple trunks when the bud is damaged, the new trunks start down on the large caudex. In South Florida Multitrunk Pony Tail Palms are favored as large landscape plants.
Cycads will frequently sprout new heads also, but usually from ground level. Again the new heads are frequently a response to stress. Also since Cycads are male or female, not both, frequently the sprout will be a different sex.

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Re: What do you think about this?

Post  drgonzo on Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:37 pm

bonsaisr wrote:
drgonzo wrote:I like the container you have that in Iris, It looks like something I've seen come out Of Nick Lenz's kiln...
Jay
Actually, it is a Nick Lenz pot (originally for a different tree). It is a little too small, but I cram it in by root pruning every year or so.
Iris

Man did I call it or what?
-Jay

the little fluting under the pot gave it away.

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What do you think about this?

Post  bonsaisr on Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:33 pm

Russell Coker wrote:

How big is that thing anyway??
If you mean my palm tree, the pot is about 8 1/2 inches, 22 cm. The trunk is 4" tall, 10 cm.
Iris

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What do you think about this?

Post  bonsaisr on Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:41 pm

Ponytail palm is Beaucarnea recurvata, a member of the Asparagus family, somewhat related to lilies. Yes, it's a monocot. No, I would not consider it a bonsai at all.
Iris

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Re: What do you think about this?

Post  Guest on Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:01 am

If this is a bonsai. Then lets call everything smaller than the usual a bonsai. and stop criticizing if the plant we see here looks to shrubby, or a stick in a pot or an ornamental plant in a pot, as long as they are smaller than the usual trees, palms, flowers, shrubs, even grass in a pot...it must be a bonsai. We must be careful in defining what is a real bonsai, otherwise some people might think that as long as they can miniaturize a plant and put it in a pot it is enough to be called a bonsai.

...This is what goes inside the mind of some plant traders so sells potted plants, and tagged it as bonsai.

regards,
jun Smile


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Re: What do you think about this?

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