to daiza or not to daiza...

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forgive me IBC friends

Post  stonener on Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:43 pm

Hi Sunip,
absolutely no problem!
I welcome anyone's advise, anytime!
I depend on the kindness of others.
I value your thoughts and Thank you!
for your willingness to share... Basketball




added back side view this time, then top,
this stone has had me wondering for years,,
what side is the front? maybe all?... scratch


Last edited by stonener on Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:29 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add pictures)

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  Chris Cochrane on Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:53 pm

Hi Joseph... There is a process to choosing the front for suiseki which is not merely speculative or the owners' preference.

If you are displaying a stone at a diagonal to the viewer or with depth obviously greater than width, it will be dismissed by viewers expecting suiseki-style placement. If the stone leans away from the viewer or if the left & right ends of the stone substantially recede from the viewer, the stone will not be engaging. A wide front with a nearly-straight (or even better if concave) front profile is most engaging.


Your stone shown with four fronts has one more credible than others. Regarding feet for that stone front, I think four are necessary as a minimum. I added a fifth foot to assure that foot placement is not too symmetrical in spacing. You can see my recommendations for foot placement in BLUE-color differ somewhat from Peter's choices in RED-color...

_________________
... visit the U.S. National Bonsai & Penjing Museum, Washington DC USA-- http://www.bonsai-nbf.com

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  peterbrod on Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:48 pm

Sad I do not, other solutions

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  peterbrod on Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:06 pm

Idea

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  Guest on Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:10 am

Hi All...

I understand Chris want to awoid leghell.
But in this case, as Stonener has cut the daiza deep into the stones shape, will I prefer Peterbrods option. And the feet is nice small, is it not bad at all.

To use Chris' option, will the carver have to think the design through before carving.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Much Appreciated!

Post  stonener on Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:24 pm

a lot to consider! once cut, done!
many pros and cons, difficult!
anything on the back feet,
or was first idea acceptable?
in your eyes?... Suspect



red/blue greatly appreciated... Like a Star @ heaven

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  peterbrod on Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:02 pm

place for an outdoor foot stone arch

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1 see what you say

Post  stonener on Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:26 am

Domo Arigato Sensei
I understand back side placement... Suspect

Hey Chris! most engaging rule of thumb sounds great!
That's definitely what I want from the viewer... Suspect

Sunip your choice for the front of triangle stone,
was perfect, as Chris confirms, best possible... Suspect

Will post daiza results asap... Basketball



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points well taken

Post  stonener on Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:52 am

Hello I B C Friends
Daiza results as follows;

Ms Yvonne, chose front, I liked first as you suggested,
to show small distance mountain top for depth,
can be seen half way to right end, at back.
used straight line end to end as you mentioned... cyclops

Chris, did not combine two feet to make one,
no wrap around feet at ends, placed sightly forward.
used top view for locations of feet and front... cyclops

Peter Sensei, 4/6 rule used for thickness of daiza,
no floating ends, feet smaller and all same size.
followed points of weight or out spots for placement... cyclops





I like to used this type of foot, I call lazy feet,
better grounding mountain mass for viewing.
As you will notice! I am showing a different stone,
to show prior, only following instructions,
this way can show rules learned and applied... Basketball

THANK YOU! my friends to your support and guidance,
I was blind but now I see... ThumbsUp

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  Guest on Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:54 am

Hi Stonener

This is my front, and my guess is, it also is yours.



About your lazy feet. I think they are just lazy, and the daiza looks unfinished....I would go back to work.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Next One Done

Post  stonener on Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:20 am

This is the my latest attempt,
difficult bottom, deep not flat,
lots of carving, slow process,
tight fit, shallow, contoured,
so again lazy feet my favorite!... Basketball
California Jade cobble 8.5x7x3.5" TOIYAMA-KEIRYU-SEKI




Last edited by stonener on Tue May 01, 2012 7:48 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : + X)

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  Guest on Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:33 am

Hi Stonener

So this is what you have been doing for many days Smile

The stone is very interesting, and your stand fits nicely.Very nice, thanks for sharing.

Kind regards Yvonne...How small/big is the stone?

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  trantanhung_nt on Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:39 am

Hello STONENER ,
I like your " lazy feet " . And I want to listen everybody ' s opinions ...
Thank you your share .
Sincerely ,
Hưng - Trần .

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wasup! my friend?

Post  stonener on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:35 am

Oh! ya! so do I, Hung... Basketball
I think they give a better stronger look of support for landscape view stones.
I don't like duck feet that stick out or look fancy, too much detail if seen first.
the lazy feet I use are very simple, plain and do not compete with the view.
But still there not for everybody, but things are changing slowly... cyclops


Last edited by stonener on Tue May 01, 2012 7:44 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add end)

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Next One Done

Post  stonener on Tue May 01, 2012 8:01 am

Hello Ms Yvonne!,
Thank You for your question?... Basketball
But Size already first posted, "originally",
read again, see at bottom listed... cyclops
as 8.5x7x3.5" not including daiza.

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Got Suwari ?

Post  stonener on Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:53 pm

I think the most endearing quality is that a stone sit well on it's own,
without support, leaving it to stand as found in nature... cyclops
Just found this refreashing stone on a 107 degree day, in the shade!
In a Northern California River, it imediatetly cooled me way down... Basketball
KEIRYU-ISHI 7.5x5x5 Jasper


[img][/img]

Would a daiza improve it or just get in the way, What say you?... Shocked

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  trantanhung_nt on Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:10 am

_ Very , very beautiful ... this stone !!! Hello STONENER .
Thank you very much .
Hưng - Trần .

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  Mark on Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:14 pm

Based on the one photo you posted ,this stone would be well suited for daiza mounting. A flat bottom that allows the stone to sit in
a best view is a well suited for the elevated display a daiza can provide. Elevated in respect, formality and visual appeal.
For another 107 f day, suiban display with sand and water may provide the additional cooling effect needed! Very nice stone, thanks for sharing it!

Mark

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  Chris Cochrane on Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:28 pm

Hi Joseph. Hi Mark. ... Mark is a terrific contributor to stone discussion & leads an IRL study group which boast extraordinary guests. The one photo of this stone leaves me with more questions than answers to the question of mounting it. I know Joseph contemplates setting stones with flat-bottoms on a board or plain suiban as in Sekisui Kai exhibits in Japan. This stone is arguably not a good candidate for that.

Here is a stone of mine, Joseph, with a naturally flat bottom that also conforms somewhat to the "notion of three sides/surfaces"...

Crescent-front mountain stone...


Crescent-front mountain stone's bottom...



I would not recommend mounting your red stone on its natural, flat-bottom, as depicted. While the stone expands its foot toward the left-end, its foot is strongly undercut on its right-end. For assessment of 3-sides/surfaces, this imbalance of underside ends is inadequate.

Would Mark only collect this stone if it could be well-mounted without cutting? While I wouldn't cut it, I usually assess where a stone might be cut for best mounting & imagination options for mounting without cutting which would best suit. If I can't mount the stone to advantage after this assessment, I seldom keep the stone for further consideration.

Pacific NW enthusiasts including Joseph cut landscape-view stones commonly, and I might recommend this cut to create a cascade stone that conforms to the notion of three sides/surfaces...



Filling the gap between a shallow daiza and the undercut of the stone's end is sometimes seen in daiza construction-- even in Japan. Unless filling the gap is marginal (this one would be significant), it is a sculptural addition which a carefully selected stone should not require.

_________________
... visit the U.S. National Bonsai & Penjing Museum, Washington DC USA-- http://www.bonsai-nbf.com

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"Translation Captured"

Post  stonener on Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:07 am

Hi Guys!
Hung, Mark & Chris!
Thank You All for your time!
I will not soon forget your kindness... cheers

I was recently told by Mr Tatehata, editor of Aiseki Magazine, without a doubt that a suiseki without a daiza is naked.
expertly translated by Wil, of Japan "when you show off your child to the public, you dress them up! right?"
or would you display them naked? for all to see... affraid

Few words leave little doubt, nothing lost in translation, so understood! daiza here, daiza there, daiza daiza everywhere!
In the one picture I posted, a pencil line can be seen, lower right hand corner, where daiza I am now creating fits.
I will post completed work shortly, styling designs always get in the way, as I like a "quite" stand, stone seen first... Basketball

My friend Hung, you have a expert eye, which your stones express, I am honored. So glad you very very like my stone... king
Mark your suggestion of a suiban is most appreciated, now using blue ceramic with water only for fresh summer feeling... king
Chris, Sensei you fill my heart and put a smile on my face, your words are awesome, like meat for the starving masses... king

but "no cuts for me"






Last edited by stonener on Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:12 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : +)

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naked no more

Post  stonener on Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:39 pm

here's the finished daiza!
what say you... Basketball

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and here's back!

Post  stonener on Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:59 pm

for your information only... Basketball

look no water on the back, r i g h t!... cyclops

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  Chris Cochrane on Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:24 pm

Just the right balance between the two sides, Joseph. I'm delighted at how well the undercut was filled by a shallow daiza leaving only a slight undercut on both ends of the natural, uncut stone.

Also, I apologize for stating that you cut your stones. You've shown stones that you mounted for a suiseki dealer that were cut, but they were not for your own collection... ThumbsUp

_________________
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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  kdurais on Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:42 pm

Brilliant stone. Awesome find. Nice daiza as well.

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no apologize needed

Post  stonener on Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:19 pm

Hey Chris Sensei!
We work with what we got!, r i g h t... Basketball
This seat is a combination of many ideas.
1st and for most is the color, a hammered antique bronze paint!... Suspect
quite understated and complementing the colors of this stone.
Inspired by Juneu Kim's VIEWING STONES KOREAN CLASSICAL CONCEPTS
back cover picture of a daiza made of metal, now that's note worthy!
2nd are the tucked under feet... Suspect
Inspired by Nina Ragle, a softer understated placement she suggested to me.
while steal giving the look of supporting mass, which I target.
3rd is the "less is more" design concept of Al Nelson, my daiza Sensei... Suspect
and mentor, who's end less hours of hands on guidance has made this venture possible.
And last but not least, the helpful, knowledgeable Sensei's on this site,
Ms Yvonne, Master Peter, Sensei Chris and My Friends Hung & Sunip who so freely give of there time and expertise in the fields,
you all been inspiring as well, thanks you!... Basketball

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

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