to daiza or not to daiza...

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  stonener on Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:50 am

Yes my friend Hung,
I do as you say and listen to them all!
When I'm done with daiza you will see.. cheers

Hey Dre!
I'm great with a Turkey!
with wood not so much!... affraid
stonener


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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  stonener on Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:44 am

ok my friends!
sunip, sensei peter, hung & andre... Basketball
i have heard each one of you,
this is the best can do this time,
1 out of two suggestions from each... cyclops
stonener



how do you like me now... Suspect

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  trantanhung_nt on Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:22 am

Hello STONENER ,
and all Members IBC Forum ,
Stonener - My Friends , you have put a smile on my face at the moment .
You ' ve done pretty well DAIZA with difficulty levels ...
Hopefully you will do more DAIZA in the near future
Thank you and admire the efforts make your DAIZA .
Sincerely ,
Hưng - Trần .

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  stonener on Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:43 am

this is different kind of style for me,
inspired by potter dale cochoy drb,
and abcd courage to break the rules.



#10 california river natural "hot potato" 5x8.5x3"


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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  stonener on Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:22 am

another different style daiza,
inspired by potter dale cochoy,
sure footed approach for tall heavy stone,
tunnels with as little wood as possible.



#11 california coast vulcanized jade natural "wedge" 11x10.5x7.5

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  stonener on Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:43 am

this one was just for fun,
my best friends chinese stone,
and yes, as you can see!
the waterfall runs down back also,
but he doesn't care? he said
"you can only see one side at a time!"
stonener



dahua red river stone "waterfall" 3.5x3x1.25"


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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  peterbrod on Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:18 am

sunny

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  sunip on Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:17 pm

Hello Stonener and Peter.
It would look like this?
Sunip Wink


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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  peterbrod on Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:15 pm

Idea

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  stonener on Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:59 am

thank you for the fine tuning!

sensei peter i read the red lines, add foot
straiten out stone, waterfall & bottom.
keep daiza taller because of stone height.

sunip change to duck feet &
change color to dark brown,
make daiza thinner and add lip to top.
stonener... Basketball




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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  stonener on Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:08 am

Latest one was all Fun...Basketball
This is the style I have settled into, for me it's supporting the stone mass.
IMHO Gently frames and allows you to see the stone first, like a spouse.
Front

back
 
Top

Left

Right


Ok I was asked what Japanese Classification would I give this Suiseki?
Japanese Art So Japanese Tittles "Google - up if you need to"
So I put the question to you? choose one & state your reasons.

1. ZEPPEKI-ISHI - Cliff Stone
2. HARI-ISHI - Pinnacle or Point Stone
3. KAWAKU KEIKOKU-ISHI - Dry Canyon Stone
4. HEICHIGATA-ISHI - Mesa Stone
5. GAKE-ISHI - Bluff Stone
6. OTHER - Japanese Name?

Basalt & Lime stone mix, water wore, cut

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  Chris Cochrane on Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:17 pm

Hi Joseph... I like your mounting.

With appreciation for your interest in my seeing, I could imagine snow fields in a high mountain valley if the stone was less stained. Arguably, the stone is mostly limestone which will weather to a lighter, more uniform shade. If the ends are basalt (making a vertical "limestone-inside" sandwich), the stone would be more attractive with the two stones more defined (see Felix Rivera's book re' notan ("light/dark") or other references to inyo (male/female principle, light/dark et al.).

Due to the light areas falling over-the-top of the stone on both sides, it regrettably appears a failed "waterfall" (taki-ishi) suiseki or "avalanche" (leaving exposed raw earth) viewing stone. Since most suiseki collectors avoid this configuration, you should not feel obligated to name its form in Japanese.

_________________
... visit the U.S. National Bonsai & Penjing Museum, Washington DC USA-- http://www.bonsai-nbf.com

Chris Cochrane
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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  stonener on Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:28 pm

Oh ya Chris I hear you! and appreciate your input.
But that my friend is the backside or right end of the stone!
If your choosing it as front then a Glacier, of Frozen Ice comes to mine.
As in the Northern Mountain Ranges or the Fjords seen on Arctic Cruses.
so IMHO HYOGA-ISH is offered.
As learning should be our main effort, Japanese Suiseki terms are humbly offered.


Denali National Park

However if you would consider the front Basalt side, with Dry Lake and Jawbone Canyon!
What would you say then, yes very interested in your opinion as it teaches us all.
Thanks for your time and effort Chris...Basketball 
stonener
*glad you like*,  "the mounting"...


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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  Chris Cochrane on Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:04 pm

Couldn't agree, more, Joseph.  I was focusing on the back.  I look at stones on all-three sides (1. front-back, 2. left-right, 3. top-bottom) to assess their potential.

As far as your "suiseki" terminology, applying Japanese terms beyond recognized classifications does not create a suiseki classification.  The great proponent of expanding classifications is former editor of California Aiseki Kai newsletter Jack Dennis & his wife Sachiko.  I admit to appreciating more options in landscapes after seeing Jack's incredible chart of styles expressed in Japanese, so I think the exercise of seeing more precisely is great.

I would recommend landscape-style stones not fitting any Japanese suiseki classification be considered viewing stones.  Jack & Sachiko have an uphill battle to have such stones considered for California Aiseki Kai exhibitions.  Jim Greaves has no problem at all with stones of indistinct suiseki classification being called viewing stones.  Neither is categorically wrong, but you will find more peace with others (& yourself) in accepting some stones that are minimally arguable as suiseki as viewing stones.  

There are also some very inclusive suiseki categories that catch many stones.  The iwagata-ishi ("massive or coastal rock") in shape traverses a broad array of forms.

_________________
... visit the U.S. National Bonsai & Penjing Museum, Washington DC USA-- http://www.bonsai-nbf.com

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  stonener on Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:49 pm

OH Ya! Chris as do most of us,
that's why five pictures offered...Suspect 
only bottom not included because cut.
as mentioned...
OK so you choose the back as a better front...cyclops 
and IWAGATA-ISHI as broad Suiseki Classification.
As you say Jack and Jim are my Sensei's...faraoking  
and I owe them plenty for all the AH-HA!
moments on this journey so far...Basketball 
stonener
*learning can be fun*

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  thientrakieu on Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:02 am

stonener wrote:Good, Bad or Ugly I welcome all comments, from anyone. This is my 2nd daiza ever, 1st was for one of my natural bottom stones which turned out not so good, looked like a big head with little feet. This is a cut stone, which belongs to my friend Ken Mc Leod, it's from a Northern California River. I have followed Peterbrod styles and feet placement carefully. Thanks Peter for your wonderful examples, after being told to remove 4mm at a time and enjoy, I was left wondering where to start. I keep most of my stones in the yard, on benches were I water them along side bonsai to develop patina. Have been told that suiseki need a daiza, and is the way to keep them safe. If I continue making daiza's for my stones I will quickly run out of room in the house. Wife said stones stay in the yard and daiza's boxed neatly in garage... affraid 
size 8.5"x2.5"x3.5"

when wives don't like stones, it's always difficult for stone collectors and they have no way to resolve. I'm lucky because my wife love stones very much. I wish your wife will change her mind and love stones. Your daiza is very nice

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  stonener on Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:01 pm

Hello Thien
Thank You for view my work!
and most of all for taking the time to comment! by posting...cheers 
I am a beginner at daiza making, but stone collecting many years.
so many of my stones needed daiza's, had to start making them.
My friend Ken liked then so much asked me to make for him?
So with much help I receive from "gate keepers" on this site
I have made several now, some good!, some not so good!
But advise has always been the best I could get anywhere.
Sensei Peter, Master Sunip, Professor Chris, even Ms Yvonne...king king king queen 
have reached out to me with kindness and understanding.
I have seen others learn and grow as well on line here, great!
Wife complains but does not stop me anymore, things are slowly!
getting better. Some medium stones in house now, danger of her!
picking them up and throwing then at me not so much anymore...jocolor 
We now take river trips to collect, she likes "heart shaped" stones the most.
She said they call to her, I try to show her to see more, slowly! little bites.
Rocks can be lots of fun!... Basketball 
stonener
*someday for both*



Jasper Heart found by the love of my youth...I love you


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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  Guest on Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:10 pm

Hi Stonener

I am happy, your vife is more "hooked" on the stones now...I am not sure if you showed 2 or 3 stones out of the 5 Photos....but I think your style fit this kind of stones well...my guess they are Murphystones...am I right?

Have a nice day. Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  stonener on Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:25 pm

Thank You! Ms Yvonne for your time, effort and most of all friendly response!
Yes my wife not so much "hooked" but learning to hunt for what she likes, which is Great!
I on the other hand bring way too many back!, she always tells me, over and over again!
I have many piles in the yard, from which I later rediscover better than first seen stones.
Having her with me is the biggest blessing, we have fun looking and sharing time together.
Praying this might be the one fun hobby we have in common and can really enjoy as a team.

This stone as mentioned before is limestone with Basalt mix, Chris called it a "sandwich".
it comes from a water wore source, found up high on blanks of a large lake reserve.
We call it Black Murphy, but does not come from that area, only because of the way material looks.
I like the mostly Basalt side, maybe not the front?, but it does have a dry lake, canyon & natural spill way.

I know the mounting is not in daiza style as others would imminently say, more my own American developed style.
"Lazy Legs" maybe good, maybe not, I just don't like duck feet on mountains, which makes them look like their dancing around!
But You do not choose a side? of this one stone or offer a Japanese name, this is only a fun way or game to learn Suiseki names.
There are many of them I'm told, just like seasons in Tokonoma displays, I've heard thirty six of them, this French Guy once said.
Names withheld to protect the innocent, which I think is a good practice, as no intention of offending or insulting anyone ever!
In whatever style Keido or otherwise viewed in, most rules come from whatever tea ceremony practices and disciplines we learn.
all of which I am no expert at, but am forever willing to learn of this established explicit art form...Basketball 
stonener
*it's the journey*

 
My front looking down into stone...                        top view looking straight down, as birds eye view...


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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  Guest on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:06 am

Hi stonener

I also have piles of stones, witch i sometimes return too, to see if i by mistake have thrown out, a good stone ....it is quit amazing to see so many stones with suiseki qualities, and then a Little part is not good after all. I think I have gone through the stone very carefully before I let it go, so yet, have there not being any going back.
But on the other hand, do I have many in the garden, I know, never will end up in a daiza after all.  

Now I understand the birdsview Photo...but I am afraid it give a difrent, to me, more natural front, from the one you decided.


I have seen many daizas now, many mordern, and yours are quit nice and elegant, and still grounded. Lazy feet or not...I dont see them, they look regular....the problem about them on the long line, is that they will need a very perfect table to stand on, as they othervise will wobble, witch may not be what you want to show viewers in a exhibition.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  stonener on Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:41 am

Thank You! Ms Yvonne
For your sharp eye and better sense of orientation, much appreciated!...Suspect 
The owner had that same view in mind all along, which I was not aware of.
See here the same side you mention as the preferred Suiseki front by my friend. 
I was glad that I followed foot placement rule, given by Sensei Peter...king 
Looks like the feet are still in the right spots even if different front was chosen as finial view.
One thing I show you now, is the bottom of my style, which is solid flat all the way across.
Only angle cut between feet at edge, so there is no way possible it will wobble or tilt.
Daiza sits flat on entire bottom which is the best way to support any stones heavy weight.
When at exhibitions always displayed on long flat table tops or on Tokonoma floors, which are level.
Even if displayed in the yard a flat surface is selected like the floor or a garden eating table.
I really like large heavy stones so this was my way of allowing for a much stronger mounting support.
Feet are by design a bit longer to give a grounding feeling, my "American Perspective"...Basketball 
stonener
*appreciate your time*

 

sorry for small picture of Suiseki front, this is what was sent to me


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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  trantanhung_nt on Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:48 am

Oh ! very beautiful Hello My Friend - Stonener .
Hưng - Trần .

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  stonener on Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:05 am

My Friend Hung! so glad you like my style mounting
"American Style" plain, simple, solid, strong with natural wood color.
Idea is only to support the stone at the right viewing angle, no fanciness.
Just as in marriage to a good wife! "A Happy Couple"..Basketball 
stonener
*team work*



Black Walnut with clear lacquer finish


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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  Guest on Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:00 am

Hi Stonener

Surprised and happy to read your response, about the front...I like Smile 

You are rigt, the buttom on your stand is stronger, and can take a very heavy stone, also will it stand strong on a straight table...the kind of Wood and collor, you use, is perfect for this kind of stone.

My point of view was, ...Many people use old japanese stands, and they often are a bit wobbly...having a suiseki wobbling on the stand, on tree feet or more is better/prettyer, than having a suiseki wobbling on the center of the buttom, and two feet or more.

Peterbrods feetplacement lecture has been a great eyeopener, and aha for me too.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  stonener on Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:31 pm

OK everyone! Please advise I'm...sunny queen farao king Sleep 
Struggling for a daiza style for this figure stone,
Was thinking of a simple square block design... Suspect 
with a narrow collar around the base of stone,
and cut away beveled corners, museum pedestal look...Basketball 
stonener
*Focus on stone*

 

Would love a Fancy Chinese Lotus Blossom, but I can't, not yet!.

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

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