to daiza or not to daiza...

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to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  stonener on Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:08 am

Good, Bad or Ugly I welcome all comments, from anyone. This is my 2nd daiza ever, 1st was for one of my natural bottom stones which turned out not so good, looked like a big head with little feet. This is a cut stone, which belongs to my friend Ken Mc Leod, it's from a Northern California River. I have followed Peterbrod styles and feet placement carefully. Thanks Peter for your wonderful examples, after being told to remove 4mm at a time and enjoy, I was left wondering where to start. I keep most of my stones in the yard, on benches were I water them along side bonsai to develop patina. Have been told that suiseki need a daiza, and is the way to keep them safe. If I continue making daiza's for my stones I will quickly run out of room in the house. Wife said stones stay in the yard and daiza's boxed neatly in garage... affraid
size 8.5"x2.5"x3.5"



Last edited by stonener on Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:14 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : emoticon)

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  Guest on Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:33 am

Hi Stonener

What took you so long to get started Arrow ...This is a very nice stone and daiza.
Look forward to see many more carvings from your hand Smile .
You will have to teach you vife, how to appreciate the beauty of the stones..........

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  dick benbow on Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:00 pm

nicely done! I think you should move up to washington state and hunt the rivers for more needy suiseki that need to be PROPERLY displayed Very Happy

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long journey first step

Post  stonener on Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:54 pm

Thank You! Ms Yvonne,
For your kind words, they mean a heavy load lifted, and are reassuring of my effort in this new venture. But there is much more than meets the eye, many tools and supplies needed and then skills and tech-nicks which have to be learned. Way too many to mention in this brief posting. In the past have simply paid, Cliff, Al my pal or others to make daiza's on a as needed basis. But now making them brings new awareness of my stones, much more personal experience. So if I am to learn this craft need more details, specifics from you!. Do you think a black daiza with a black stone works? or do you think brown color stained wood, would have been better. I think stone should be seen first, then the daiza as a supporting element of the composition, and not the focus. Now think black daiza makes this quality stone seem grayish, this is a solid jet black stone. Also I think daiza bottom lacks movement because of the straight cut on the bottom of the stone. I don't own any cut stones, only collect naturals, however this one presents an almost convincing argument. Have been taught by Larry & Nina never to cut, Keido Style teachings. Which I total believe and embrace hardheartedly... study

p.s. working on #3, natural bottom, stay tuned...


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Woe!... PROPERLY DISPLAY...ed?

Post  stonener on Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:55 pm

Now that Dick is a loaded statement, one of great personal preferences, to said the lest! and I will never again engage. I recently entered the 3rd Annual Kazari Bonsai Competition at the Clark Center for Japanese Art and Culture, in Harnford California. A National competition on the art of displaying bonsai in a tokonoma alcove setting. Suiseki and art scrolls are incorporated in the Keido Style form, of formal display. The contest judged and workshop given by Kathy was a fabulous experience which I will never forget. Well worth the expense, time and effort of a six hundred mile round trip drive for me, as I live in Southern California. There will be a booklet available soon for this one, as have been for the last two, visit www.ccjac.org for more details...
But hunting the rivers in Washington State, for needy suiseki!, now that surges my emotions. Thoughts of collecting river wore jades, the best in the world with my buddy Ken collector extraordinaire see www.suisekistones.com, rush to mind. I can hear and smell the river while dreaming of picking up a keeper. I recently attended the California Jade festival, wow! was that an eye opener or what? So many different kinds of fabulous jade materials, suiseki and crafts. I will be doing a club meeting presentation for AsekiKai"s news letter in September 2012, stay tuned, for more information visit www.aisekikay.com A booklet on Jade and the festival also available from Don, visit geopubs@sbcglobal.net
So Dick did I perceive an invitation, or was it just wishful thinking on my part. If your ever at one of the GSBF, conventions see www.gsbf-bonsai.org down here you've got a standing invitation to rock out... bounce


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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  Guest on Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:22 pm

[quote="stonener"]Thank You! Ms Yvonne,
For your kind words, they mean a heavy load lifted, and are reassuring of my effort in this new venture. But there is much more than meets the eye, many tools and supplies needed and then skills and tech-nicks which have to be learned. Way too many to mention in this brief posting. In the past have simply paid, Cliff, Al my pal or others to make daiza's on a as needed basis. But now making them brings new awareness of my stones, much more personal experience. So if I am to learn this craft need more details, specifics from you!. Do you think a black daiza with a black stone works? or do you think brown color stained wood, would have been better. I think stone should be seen first, then the daiza as a supporting element of the composition, and not the focus. Now think black daiza makes this quality stone seem grayish, this is a solid jet black stone. Also I think daiza bottom lacks movement because of the straight cut on the bottom of the stone. I don't own any cut stones, only collect naturals, however this one presents an almost convincing argument. Have been taught by Larry & Nina never to cut, Keido Style teachings. Which I total believe and embrace hardheartedly... study

WOW Stonener.....WOW

So happy to read, you are working on the 3th. daiza....Like me, you are allready addicted, and know the stone is much more interesting and personal, if it is found by you, and the daiza is homecarved Smile.

Seeing your second daiza, is a good start....you could later make a slightly more detailet daiza for the stone, that would be nice. To paint the daiza black for a black stone is not the best......But, everytime one say, this does not work, another person will be happy to show you it can be done...I have a japanese stone in a black daiza.

I dont understand the words " stained wood".....I like the natural lines in the wood, and if I want the daiza darker, I prefer to dye it dark or middle brown, for paler stones is the natural collour maybe nice....redbrown, or yelleowbrown....I find, or mix the collour I like.

Look forward to your next daiza, please post a little better photos this time, 4 stk.....I am too bussy with work at the moment..cant wait, untill I have two days to use for daizamaking again.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  ang3lfir3 on Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:53 am

Excellent diaza .... I assume you made this one for Ken to sell?? I hope to get a chance to see it soon ... but then again I hope it sells to a good home as well.... I love Ken's stones (I own a few)..... I have a piece of black jade that he has dibs on if I ever decide to sell it...

I had to chuckle at ur second post in the thread..... you just name dropped GSBF all over the place... even from way up here in WA I know who you are talking about :p


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when your right your right

Post  stonener on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:59 am

Ya! Dude I have no shame, just love my game. I've heard of and seen a picture of you standing by that 200lb beauty a top a wood spool table. With the worlds biggest, ear to ear, Cheshire cats smile I've ever seen. I almost pasted out at first sight, if I had my inheritance now I would put it were my mouth is. I have been holding my breath and counting the days, that I might be able to speak up. Black jade is my absolute favorite and just about everyone else I'm sure. But the size, shape, color and ware of that stone are exceptional, a world class dreamseki. OH! well, cats out of the bag, keeping my fingers crossed, both hands ... cyclops



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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  ang3lfir3 on Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:17 am

lol .... thats not me.... the stone I have is a small black wyoming jade slick..... however .... I'd love to see that pic!!! that must be amazing!!!!!!!

the stone I have is small but I always try to remember to bring it when I know Ken will be around.... he loves stones so much and I enjoy the look on his face when he gets to hold the stone and look for something he hasn't seen in it yet Smile

btw did I mention that is a fantastic daiza?! my only remark would be that something closer to a more walnuty brown would be nice... to seperate the two but not call attention away from that awesome stone!!

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whoops! my mistake

Post  stonener on Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:55 am

Was thinking you were Dick from Washington State,
Ya I think I have one of two you sold to Jim?, my has a kinda triangle rounded bottom figure shape, very smooth, like a Halloween candy corn. Looks like Harry's famous touch me stone from Wyoming, was that a gift to him from you? or is that not you again!
about the daiza, like I said when your right your right, that is exactly what I now think also!, this has been a kinda trial by error thing for me, it's my first time. Kinda reminds me of my other first time, as a teenager. Performance anxiety all over again, can't possibly think of why or how I should make another fancier as suggested. If it's not one thing it's another, some people are just never satisfied. No matter what you do, they find something wrong with it, good is just never good enough. Glad you think it's fantastic, so do I, up high!... cheers
Will you be in town for the AisekiKai show. Let me know maybe you, I & ken can do lunch and trade stones... What a Face

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  ang3lfir3 on Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:11 am

lol thats not me again either.... I am actually new to suiseki in general .... and even more new to stone collecting... the jade was a gift from my father a few years ago... Ken should have pictures somewhere... I'm sure he would love to show you... just tell him its from the people who bought the foo dog :p

lol now that you keep mentioning these stones I wish I could see them Razz

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third times a charm

Post  stonener on Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:42 am

OK Dude I remember you and your wife, last saw you both at Santa Clara GSBF convention, were I was helping Ken in this booth. Remember your wife buying that puddle the last day too. That pink color foo dog was one that got away from me. Now remember the story of gift from you dad, so not for sale, right? it's a fish shape, right?...
anyways about to post next cut stone daiza made today, much better orginized, process some what easier this time. Same style, I really like then plain not loud or fancy. I think this stone is also quality, "Gorilla Mountain" mulity colored jade, smooth as skin.
Had a little trouble with the placement of the feet. But putting it out there for review and all coments welcomed, even if they hurt a little. Only way to learn, constructive... Rolling Eyes


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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  ang3lfir3 on Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:48 am

winner winner chicken dinner... yeah.... im sitting next to that puddle as I type this... and yup the jade is a fish... and a lizard... and a ridge

I would love to hear any tips you have on making daiza... especially for cut stones... I have a few that i need to make daiza for and with Patrick being busy I need to learn to do it myself :p

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next daiza in line

Post  stonener on Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:14 am

for you review, be brutally honest please, it's the only way I can learn, good bad or ugly all comments welcomed and APPRECIATED!
Questioning placement of feet?
"Gorilla Mountain" 11.5"x3"x4.5", Jade, California River polished... cyclops





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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  Guest on Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:14 am

Hi Stonener

I also like the plain daiza.....but a stone inbetween with a more detailet daiza, makes the diffrence, that makes your displays in your home interesting....also is it a satisfaction to know, you can do it, if you want too....but take your time, there is so much, you need to learn first....like what to do first, next, and so on.

I am sorry, but I will be brutal to you....
Before you place the feet, is is very important for you, to know the exact display-front....and then you place the feet, in the best spots available, not exacly were the stone say they must be placed.

The two first feet must be placed in the outer corners of the stone.....your stone have nice options.




My drawings a quit poor, but I think you will understand.
The green line is what I would think is the viewingfront, at least from looking at the photo.
The red dots is the feet.



It is in the absolut ends, seen from the front the legs are placed.

Kind regards Yvonne....I like the stone Smile







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truth be told

Post  stonener on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:39 pm

Exactly Ms Yvonne as you point out, I need and want to learn so much more.
You are right, I totally agree, front and feet as you have noted, also
I have been listening to the stone, no floating ends, feet at outer points of visual weight.
equal width border, closely following stone pattern, daiza thin as possible, 1/5th to 1/7th of stone height.
Stone comes first, daiza second as supporting character, only to hold at right angle for viewing, quite and calming
all these rules I closely follow, at this point I think a camera for better photographs is what I needed,
and stop using my cell phone...

One thing? when you say "more detailed daiza" what do you mean specifically? I'm curious!
Is it duck feet that you have in mind? "they only look good on ducks"
I have purposely avoided them, don't think look good on a mountain.
to me this solid foot gives more visual support and grounding to mountain feeling of massiveness.
Hard for me to break thinking, "less is more"...

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  Guest on Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:13 pm

Hi again

More detailet, is a nice profile...take a look at peterbrods daizas, they are nice detailed.

Also look in japanese books and magazines. There you will find wonderfull detailet and quiet solutions for solving problems with uncut stones, who may miss a corner, or need "something else"....
Also feet have many delicate solutions.

I would like to show you some examples, but I dont think, I am allowed to show photos from magazines.....sorry.

Duck- and lionfeet, is in my oppinion, and yours too ( I think ) ridiculous, and has nothing to do with suiseki.

Look forward to your next daisa Smile
Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  peterbrod on Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:29 pm

yes Yvonne

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  trantanhung_nt on Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:31 am

Hi Stonener ,
Hi all Members - IBC Forum ,
Thank many concrete guidelines about the way made DAIZA of Mr. Peterbrod .
Sincerely ,
Hưng - Trần .

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I see expert advise

Post  stonener on Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:47 am

Thanks Ms Yvonne for asking peter's advise on my daiza's.
No words, but I can read between the lines, looks like...
he recommended thicker 4-6 ratio(twice thick than mine)and more feet, dots show visual weight points were feet are suggested.
second daiza right end foot moved over to weight point (to the left at dot)and not at the end while adding another to the back.

Sup! Hung my friend, when I was a boy
my mother used to tell me "son every head is a different world"
my dad a car sales men once told me "there's a seat for every butt, and an butt for every seat"
So I think people are like suiseki:
No two are ever exactly the same, as for me I'm happy to be a little different.
Do you have any faces or holes stones you can share... Basketball


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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  Guest on Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:47 am

stonener wrote:for you review, be brutally honest please, it's the only way I can learn, good bad or ugly all comments welcomed and APPRECIATED!
Questioning placement of feet?
"Gorilla Mountain" 11.5"x3"x4.5", Jade, California River polished... cyclops

Hi Stonener

I can respect other peoples opinions and taste, no problem......Next time, you just refrain from sending a reply like this.
I did not ask for Peterbrods opinion. I asked you to study hes daizas.
Peterbrod was friendly and gave you some help, all by him self.
Next time, Just show us your work Smile

This is my stone with a hole....I hope you like it.



Kind regards Yvonne






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doing as you say

Post  stonener on Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:21 pm

Ms Yvonne,
in the center of pictures posted by perter, can be seen " yes yvonne", is why I thanked you for asking him to help me.
this being said.
I love your stone but it's posted on the wrong thread, now that's a hole and a half, the kind I only dream of finding and your display! magnificent presentation. I can clearing see your time and efforts! Once Again! Thank You for sharing... cheers

Mr Peter! I am honored that you took the time, and were also willing to help me.
I am nothing but grateful, you have gotten my attention, and yes I can read your suggestions.
no words needed. I will be looking forward to anything else you "do not say"... cheers



Last edited by stonener on Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:20 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : correction, again & again)

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daiza si O'daiza no! (prt1)

Post  stonener on Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:33 am

OK Everybody here my next attempt,
Please review, followed suggestions said before,
good, bad or ugly all opinions are welcomed.
not any easier but still trying to improve... Basketball

Will use real camera next time promise,
#1 Double Island, bubbly red jasper,
California River, cut 12 x 3 x 4"


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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

Post  Guest on Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:10 am

Hi Stonener

It is nice to see you try again....but first you must find the viewingfront before placing the important sidecorner legs,
I have drawn the line, wich in my oppinion is the front.



The line is wobbly, but the line ends in the the spots, I find important.
As this is my oppinion, can I not give any further advise, as this daiza othervise is all wrong to me...sorry.
Hopefully somebody else find your front the right Smile

Kind regards Yvonne

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daiza si O'daiza no! (prt2)

Post  stonener on Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:21 am

same goes for this one,
everyone's opinion welcomed,
and appreciated as always... Basketball

#2 Double Mountain with waterfall
tan & white jade on black matrix,
California river, cut 11.5 x 4 x 4.5





stones available both natural & cut
see www.suisekistones.com

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Re: to daiza or not to daiza...

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