SUPER LARGE PENJING

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Re: SUPER LARGE PENJING

Post  Robert Steven on Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:28 am

Thanks Sam. Yes, I got it and just replied you.

Very nice work Marcus, I will give you my comment if you allow me..but I am about leaving to the mountain (my teakwood plantation) now, so will do it tonight. Have a happy Monday...

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Re: SUPER LARGE PENJING

Post  marcus watts on Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:38 am

Robert Steven wrote:Thanks Sam. Yes, I got it and just replied you.

Very nice work Marcus, I will give you my comment if you allow me..but I am about leaving to the mountain (my teakwood plantation) now, so will do it tonight. Have a happy Monday...

yes please Robert, I welcome and look forward to your comments as you see the creation with a better eye. From your first comments in Juns thread I looked again at the original planting and could see the weaknesses so made the larger slab and reworked the design.

i have looked at this picture and feel the vision of distance could improve more if the right hill was lower in height than the left one - i may need to make the left hill taller though due to the root formation of the bigger tree on the right hand side.

enjoy the mountain, and your monday

Marcus

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Re: SUPER LARGE PENJING

Post  Robert Steven on Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:47 pm

Thanks to allow me to make some comment, Marcus..but you don't have to agree... Laughing

I agree with your view that the two hill are in similar hight.
Your composition is very clear that the focal point is on the left, that's why you want to make the right hill lower. Agree. But from the shape of the tray, the flow is from the right to the left because it's wider to the front and the left part is flowing smaller and longer; so if you put the focal point on the right side, the viewing flow will be better with better visual balance. In this case, the right hill is higer and overlapping to the left hill.
Make more empty space in front on the right and the end of the left.

There is one very important Chinese concept in making river or valley or path "神龙见首不见尾“ ( Laughing )... don't show openly the end of the path, you should make a zigzag or curve to hide the rear end..so to create the mystery and illusion of deeper perspective...
The similar concept for the small tree on the back "近观有露,露则其质;远眺有藏,藏则意现" ( Laughing Don't try to use the translator tool, it will not work Laughing ). If you place them here and there as well as on both ends side..some hiding behind the larger trees..the impact will be different.

The way you put the second larger tree slightly further from the biggest one is just perfect for the perfective result.
Good work..Marcus...


Last edited by Robert Steven on Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:54 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : mistype)

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Re: SUPER LARGE PENJING

Post  Guest on Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:53 pm

Hi Robert and all.

This is my casuarina raft, It got slope feature and I am attempting to develop it like some of your raft forest.







I would like to submit it for your scrutiny... study


regards,
jun Smile


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Re: SUPER LARGE PENJING

Post  Robert Steven on Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:58 pm

Nice Jun..you want this for references ?.. Smile




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Re: SUPER LARGE PENJING

Post  Guest on Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:19 pm

Yes Robert, that is a very nice raft. Is it the one featured in your book, the one the almost died? I was using that raft for inspiration and guide.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: SUPER LARGE PENJING

Post  Robert Steven on Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:37 pm

Yes, it was even better after, but few were dead...





Last edited by Robert Steven on Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : mistype)

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Re: SUPER LARGE PENJING

Post  Guest on Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:47 pm

Yes that is the one alright!. That is why it looks familiar. I am sorry about the few trees that were logged. Damn Illegal loggers!, That is one of my favorite raft. Not because is the most beautiful but I like it's story, Coming from a dead bonsai comes a new forest, It got a deeper meaning and shows persistence on struggle to survive.

regards,
jun Sad

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Re: SUPER LARGE PENJING

Post  marcus watts on Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:21 pm

Robert Steven wrote:
Your composition is very clear that the focal point is on the left, that's why you want to make the right hill lower. Agree. But from the shape of the tray, the flow is from the right to the left because it's wider to the front and the left part is flowing smaller and longer; so if you put the focal point on the right side, the viewing flow will be better with better visual balance.
There is one very important Chinese concept in making river or valley or path "神龙见首不见尾“ ( Laughing )... don't show openly the end of the path, you should make a zigzag or curve to hide the rear end..so to create the mystery and illusion of deeper perspective...
The similar concept for the small tree on the back "近观有露,露则其质;远眺有藏,藏则意现". If you place them here and there as well as on both ends side..some hiding behind the larger trees..the impact will be different.

The way you put the second larger tree slightly further from the biggest one is just perfect for the perfective result.
Good work..Marcus...

Thankyou Robert, I spent all the time concentrating on the trees, and to be totally honest never considered the movement in the slab ! I see the way this planting is going now..(finally! - thankyou teacher! Very Happy )......the main focal tree needs to jump to the other hill ! the branches will work better that side as well. I am going to make the 'path' into a stream - curving out of the deep forest with one or two drops into small pools, and the small trees will be used better - i need to find some more little ones I think as well Very Happy

the hills will overlap and the stream will come around the corner between them I think.

It is so worth taking the time reworking this planting to get it right though, once the trunks and soil are correct it will remain settled for many years while i make the ramification as perfect as i can, so thankyou for the advice that is putting the forest in the right direction, much appreciated - i owe you a beer ! Smile

thanks Marcus


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Re: SUPER LARGE PENJING

Post  Robert Steven on Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:18 pm

My pleasure Marcus.

I am on my way to central Java with Raul from Mistral Bonsai, Spain to meet one bonsai "hunter", wish I will find something interesting... sunny

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Re: SUPER LARGE PENJING

Post  Gentleman G. on Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:51 am

This has turned out to be a very great/inspiring thread!!! Very Happy I love forest plantings of all sorts, and have wanted to do some sort of raft planting as well. Thanks for the wonderful ideas guys! I can't wait till Spring comes (in a whole two months where I live Wink ), even though the temps here were in the 80s (F) just a couple days ago. Looks like we may be in for our first freeze tonight, but I doubt it will happen. Perhaps next week when temps return to the 70s, I'll take a trip to one of my buddies ranches to scout some material! Thanks again for the inspiration guys, keep those wonderful trees coming!!!!



G

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Re: SUPER LARGE PENJING

Post  JimLewis on Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:17 pm

In Fine Art when a painter shows a finished painting, art appreciation is used, and not art critiquing.

I disagree. When a painter displays his works, the critics can, will, and do have a field day. Some may appreciate it, some may not, some may be ambivalent. The same has to be said for a bonsai. The true artist -- as here -- will welcome any comment on his work.

We all see things differently.

I find it hard to be ambivalent about Mr. Steven's work, though.

Besides, is any work that contains living trees ever "finished?"

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: SUPER LARGE PENJING

Post  Robert Steven on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:00 pm

Thanks G...

Jim, I totally agree with you...but the only think I don't like your comment is calling me Mr. Steven, it reminds me of the bad experience with my Norway customer many years ago... Evil or Very Mad


Last edited by Robert Steven on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:02 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : mistype)

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Re: SUPER LARGE PENJING

Post  marcus watts on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:34 pm

Hi Robert

one thing i often wonder when trying to get the focal point, movement and flow of a tree pleasing...........if the stylist is left handed do you think they try and work the material in the opposite direction to a right handed person ? i see a relationship between my styling and which hand (eye / brain? ) is my dominant.

Do you think a right handed teacher and a left handed student may think in opposites even ??

food for thought...............

happy hunting in java, Marcus

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Re: SUPER LARGE PENJING

Post  Robert Steven on Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:58 am

Marcus,

The principles are just the same. I don't know if there is any relation between right and left handed on this aspect, although I must say I also tend to create the flow from left to right for my grouping, but I also have the reverse one. Or maybe I am also left handed when I am using power tools.
But I think it's more related to how we write from left to right and we are used to this kind of flow..but I don't know if Arabic people will prefer to create grouping bonsai to flow from right as they are writing from right to left... Very Happy

Good question...

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Re: SUPER LARGE PENJING

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