When to trunk chop Wisteria

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When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  drgonzo on Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:11 am

Hello All,

I have been given the opportunity to remove two 30 year old Wisteria vines that are growing up a tree in my mothers yard. Each trunk is around 8 inches thick. When should I perform the trunk reduction on Wisteria this size?

After the reduction I assume I would allow the vines to back bud and grow freely for a season then return in early spring the next year and lift the trunks.

I would be grateful for advice on how to do this properly, I have done many deciduous trees trunk reductions and lifts so i'm not new to it, I have just never done a Wisteria and would like any advice. Its a rare chance and I'd like to do it right. I'll get pictures up of the two vines soon.

My best, and my thanks as always
Jay

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  Guest on Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:04 am

Hey Jay,

If it was me I would trunk chop & dig in one go, Late winter/early spring just before or during flowering. They respond just like any deciduous tree but with big chops they always rot out over a couple of seasons, wood hardener LS etc will hold it back but not prevent or stop it in the long term.

Good luck with the dig & would love to see them when you do.

Matt

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  sunip on Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:09 am

Hello,
I would do the trunk chop today because of the moon position ( all energy is in the roots right now)
and cover the wounds.
Digging-repotting half april, waiting a year is a possibility not necessary.
Next winter careful with frost because of the fleshy roots.
But that is me in zone 8.
Sunip

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  JimLewis on Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:52 pm

After the reduction I assume I would allow the vines to back bud and grow freely for a season then return in early spring the next year and lift the trunks.

Yes, but as Sunip says, digging in the spring would be fine.

I hope your mother realizes that your digging it up will NOT make it go away. I dug up a large one growing on a trestle by my front door (it was trying to eat my house!) 5 years ago. The rootlets I left behind have been sprouting ever since and Roundup and other weed killers don't make a dent in them.

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  my nellie on Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:27 pm

sunip wrote: Hello,
I would do the trunk chop today because of the moon position ( all energy is in the roots right now)
and cover the wounds... ...
Sunip, I can understand what you say. It's cultivation by the moon phases.
But you are in Holland and drgonzo is in New York. I think that the moon at the same time is not at the same phase in Holland and in N.Y., or is it?
Can you make this clear for me?
Thank you!

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  sunip on Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:35 pm

Hello Alexandra,
At my knowledge it is the same.
But new moon was actually friday en chopping would be best before that.
The moon is in his early waxing crescent, best not wait to long i thought.
I like to take those influences in account doing bonsai.
The internet will give you more information as i do not know the details.
regards, Sunip

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  drgonzo on Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:12 pm

So its ok to do the chop right now, and go out there next spring and lift the trunks, and even with the root damage I will cause in the dig they will still back bud from the bare stump? I don't mean to sound incredulous, I know wisteria are capable of mighty things.

I should make it clear this would be a stump-cut, back past all existing foliage.
-Jay

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  sunip on Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:11 am

Hello,
For me here, a chop would be okay, but cover the wound.
As Jim mentioned, they will sprout again from left over roots, but then, they have fine feeder roots at the end.
Most of the wisteria will have some feeder roots near the trunk that would be enough.
If you find only big roots you can do a tourniquet around a few of them if you want to be safe.
Apply some good soil around the tourniquet, after a few month there should be feeder roots and then you can cut the big roots.
Sunip

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  sunip on Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:52 am

Hello Jay,
Did you checked if there is a graft section under the soil?
Does it has a good shape?
Sunip

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  JimLewis on Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:07 pm

I can't imagine that anyone wold graft a wisteria.

Spring would be fine for digging it up. Just remember that wisteria sometimes exhibit off behavior. Chances are very good that the transplant will go well, but some just decide they liked it where they were are do not cooperate. Nothing you can do about it, but give yourself a decent size rootball and keep as much native soil around the root when you repot as possible.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  sunip on Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:43 pm

Hi Jim.
What you find in the normal nurseries here is all grafted, maybe for a faster result?
I got one with a 12,5 cm. trunk diameter in a pot with visible graft.
Also a dwarf fuji wisteria i have is grafted, but also those in the garden aswell.
regards, Sunip

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  JimLewis on Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:20 pm

What species/cultivar is grafted into what? I assume we're speaking of W. sinensis.

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  sunip on Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:59 pm

Hi Drogonzo, Jim,
Yes, Sinensis the rootstock i don't know.
Jay is your wisteria a frutescens, the American sort?
Sunip

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  drgonzo on Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:08 pm

Nurseries will often take flowering stems from mature plants and graft them to Immature understocks, so folks buying the young plants can have a flowering wisteria within the next year rather than having to wait 7-10 years for a cutting to become old enough to flower. Thats why trying to find a bonsai worthy wisteria at a nursery is difficult, I have only found one that was on its own roots and that's because the nursery separated it out from a huge mother plant as a root division and sold it in with all the little one gallon wisterias.

These plants are both about 30 years old, I'm very confident I could get a nice size root ball as they have been in nice garden soil all their lives and wisteria naturally make nice compact roots. They are not grafts and I believe they are fused at their bases underground. they are also different colors. Should make an outstanding specimen tree in a few years. Let me see if I can get a pic up of these two vines
-Jay

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  drgonzo on Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:34 pm



You can see the two trunks here, and how they cross each other, I'm planning the cuts at about 2 feet for one trunk 3 feet for the other. I probably will style them as one tree, I like the way they twist past each other.
-Jay

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  landerloos on Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:02 pm

You can chop, just before digging, take them in one go no problem at all, you can see my thread about mine, that wisteria was above ground with roots for more then 1 and a half week.
Jim, many Wisteria are grafted, the scion will always be grafted on to a wild variety that not flowers that good, but hase a stronger growth.
Not all are grafted, mine isnt, many times you can tell its grafted because of the hidious clump they form just above ground.

Peter

The link to my thread Peters Wisteria

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  marcus watts on Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:46 pm

hi Jay, what excelent wisteria trunks - you could go a little cautious - chop one now and chop the other early spring just before lifting both together - is the nice little side branch on the left part of the wisteria ? i'd be making a cut just above that and keeping about 6" of that branch in the final tree.

keep us up to date on the project

cheers Marcus

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  drgonzo on Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:00 pm

Yes Marcus, that side branch will be kept and I'll be having my mother cut very conservatively further up those trunks. My gut tells me to reduce both trunks once fully dormant and then they can be lifted next spring or spring after that, in dealing with other deciduous vines, grapes and creeper vines, I have found fall to be the safest time for drastic cuts.

These two vines are located in south eastern Massachusetts about 450 miles east of me and it would be a special trip home and back to go get them. BUT I would get to visit my mother, and have real fish and chips again!
-Jay

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  marcus watts on Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:36 pm

haha, 900 mile round trip for trees - thats what i do once or twice a year to visit willowbog - are you from these shores originally jay? fish, chips and earl grey Very Happy Very Happy

cheers Marcus

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  drgonzo on Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:39 pm

I'm from the New England area originally and moved west to upstate New York 6 years ago. And though I can get excellent grass fed beef and Amish cheese, I miss good seafood.

Wisteria trunks like that, in addition to an owner willing to part with them, are very rare of course, plus I haven't been "back east" in years.
-Jay

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  drgonzo on Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:49 pm

Marcus
I just looked where Stonehaugh is, and man thats a drive! Mapquest puts my one way drive for the Wisteria at 416 miles.
-Jay

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  coh on Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:32 pm

Jay,

I have no advice/experience to offer in terms of trunk chopping or collecting wisteria of this size. I will be very interested to see what kind of roots you can get out of the ground, especially considering that there will probably be competition from the tree roots. A few years ago I tried to remove a much smaller wisteria vine that was growing close to our house foundation (planted by the previous owner). I dug down as far as I could and found no roots - they were all deeper. My neighbor tried to pull the plant out with his truck - the chain broke! We eventually got out 2 pieces with no roots and planted them elsewhere...took a while but they eventually did re-root and take off. But these were MUCH smaller plants...1" or less trunk diameters.

Chris

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  drgonzo on Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:04 pm

Chris

I have lifted some pretty mighty stuff over the past couple of seasons but this one will no doubt give me plenty of exercise, I'm hopeful after having seen a lot of finer surface roots in other pictures and knowing the vines spent their lives in garden soil, that I wont have to kill myself to get them out, but as you say they are surprisingly resilient.

I'll be sure to bring all my implements of destruction with me. But you must admit its worth the dig. I've seen a few specimen Wisteria and they always take my breath away, Both Fred Jansons and Bill V.'s
-Jay

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WYSTERIA

Post  abcd on Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:23 am

A good technique is to creat roots on the trunk , but out off the ground , in april , with sphagnum in a plastic pot , you can remove the tree in october. [img][/img]

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

Post  sunip on Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:50 am

Hi Abcd.
Beautiful tree!!
Do you have experience with airlayering bigger trunks, can i do that also with a trunk of 12,5 cm diameter?
I planned to do this in spring.
Regards, Sunip Wink

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Re: When to trunk chop Wisteria

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