Oak leaf problem

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Oak leaf problem

Post  theBalance on Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:44 am

hi everybody,

the attached image is of 2 leaves from the same oak tree - it is a yamadori i've collected about 2 years ago...
the strange thins is that on one side of the tree the leaves have the problem of the left leaf ( in the attached image ) and the other half have the second problem ( right leaf )
in our climate it is now end of fall, begining of winter - temperturs are around ( 14 celcius in the day, and 8 celcius at night )
appreciate any advise you can give on what is causing each problem and how to fix it...



and don't hesitate to ask anything...
alon

theBalance
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Re: Oak leaf problem

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:22 pm

The leaf on the left could be fungus or insects, but the leaf on the right is classic for fertilizer burn. If you are not using too much fertilizer look to your water.

Billy M. Rhodes
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Re: Oak leaf problem

Post  theBalance on Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:16 am

Hi Billy,

regarding the left leaf - I think also it's fungus or insects - this is happening in the last 2 years, so I believe it's something that the tree "took" with him from the ground were he grew, or it's because of rot/fungus that began in the cut roots.
regarding the right leaf - the only fertelizer I used there is osmocot...it may be too much ? what do you mean in water ? too much or too little ?

do you think I should take it out of the soil and treat it ? or this can wait for the spring ( in about 4 months ) ?
how would you advise to treat the fungus ?

theBalance
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Re: Oak leaf problem

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:51 pm

the only fertilizer I used there is osmocot...it may be too much? what do you mean in water? too much or too little ?

Osmocote can burn, especially in a climate such as yours. It is temperature sensitive that is it releases more fertilizer the hotter it gets. The ratings and application rates are based upon an average of 70 F. At 90 F the fertilizer is release about twice as fast.

As to water, I visited the Dead Sea earlier his year, now I am sure that you are not using Dead Sea water on your plants, but similar chemicals in lower amounts might exist in your water.

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Re: Oak leaf problem

Post  drgonzo on Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:29 pm

The Balance,

Do some research into Oak Anthracnose fungus and see if your symptoms match, if this is the second year you have experienced this issue, I would definitely suspect it. Its very common.

And as Billy has suggested your oak probably got a fertilizer burn in addition to what appears to be a fungal issue, you have two problems to deal with here. His reasoning for suspecting the Osmocote is also sound. Some Oaks also cannot deal with salts in their water and some oaks need to be in very acidic conditions not dissimilar to Azalea, what species of Oak is it?

-Jay


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Re: Oak leaf problem

Post  theBalance on Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:40 pm

hi Guys,

10x for your time trying to help the tree & me Very Happy

Billy,
regarding the right leaf - I think that you are correct with your answer of : fertilizer burn ( I don't think it's the water, because this doesn't happen on the rest of my bonsai trees Smile
but the day tempertures are currently between 65-75 F ( and the nights are around 50 F ) - so it's NOT suppose to happen Shocked

Jay,
I've looked at "Oak Anthracnose" - but it doesn't seem to match, because in my tree it appears on old leaf and starting from there edges...and the fungus you described attacks mostly young leaf and appears as irregularly shaped spots close to the leaf veins Shocked

my course of action : I've replaces a small amount of the soil with perlait ( so it will absorb the extra moisture in the soil ) - and I will wash the soil ( to try to remove extra fertelizer )
in 2-3 weeks from now when the tree will go into dormancy & if the situation will not become better during this time, I will need to consider if to replace the soil or wait an additional 2 months for the spring to replace the soil

what do you think ?



theBalance
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Re: Oak leaf problem

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:02 pm

theBalance wrote:hi Guys,

Billy,
regarding the right leaf - I think that you are correct with your answer of : fertilizer burn ( I don't think it's the water, because this doesn't happen on the rest of my bonsai trees Smile
but the day tempertures are currently between 65-75 F ( and the nights are around 50 F ) - so it's NOT suppose to happen Shocked

The current temperature is not really the issue since it would take time for this to develop. I would not discount the water. Different species have different tolerances for salts in the water. And some soils might retain more salts than others. Do you get water stains on your pots?

Jay,
I've looked at "Oak Anthracnose" - but it doesn't seem to match, because in my tree it appears on old leaf and starting from there edges...and the fungus you described attacks mostly young leaf and appears as irregularly shaped spots close to the leaf veins Shocked

Plants and diseases don't always look like the textbook.

my course of action : I've replaces a small amount of the soil with perlait ( so it will absorb the extra moisture in the soil ) - and I will wash the soil ( to try to remove extra fertelizer )
in 2-3 weeks from now when the tree will go into dormancy & if the situation will not become better during this time, I will need to consider if to replace the soil or wait an additional 2 months for the spring to replace the soil

If you mean "perlite" the white, expanded mica product, it really doesn't adsorb any water, it just holds water on the rough surface of the product. Mixed with soil, it does open it up and improve drainage, but it also floats, and some consider it a danger to birds, since they will pick it up thinking it is gravel to help them with digestion.
If fertilizer is the issue. simply watering will leach out the fertilizer.
The damaged leaves will not heal and always show damage, you will need to wait for new growth to see if the problem continues.



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Re: Oak leaf problem

Post  theBalance on Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:22 pm

hi Billy,

our water are a bit hard ( calcium )...I do get some white layer on the surface roots of some bonsai
regarding the fertelizer..in the last 2 weeks we had a lot of rain going on...and this oak is in the open...so all the fertelizer in the soil was supposed to washed away...but instead it seems to be worse...

tanks for the correction regarding the "perlite" - yes - this is what I meant, and you are correct it doesn't absorb...but I meant it is not accumilating water like the current soil...and it allows air so the current moisture can vaiperize.

what you said about the new growth is good, because I have only small branch that grew in the last 2 months, but the leafs of this tiny branch DON'T show any problem...so maybe the problem is gone 2 month ago...and I see only the history on the old leaves ?

theBalance
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Re: Oak leaf problem

Post  ananursing on Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:45 am

I have a older oak in my lawn, which seems to be in wellness, except for circular nodules on a lot of the simply leaves. these are rounded, smooth, 3-4 mm across, red to red with a brought up hub, and are quickly peeled or selected off; i think it is some type of infection.

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Re: Oak leaf problem

Post  ananursing on Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:54 am

Billy has recommended your oak probably got a manure get rid of moreover to what seems to be a yeast problem, you have two problems to cope with here. His thinking for suspicious of the Osmosis is also audio.

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Re: Oak leaf problem

Post  Mitch Thomas on Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:40 am


I think Billy is on the right track with the water quaility. But I think the water quality weakens the tree and then a fungal thing came second. Have your water checked to see where your at. The ph calcium sodium levels are the biggies. Just Because it is a public water and labeled safe for human conduption to don't think it's good for you or your plants/ Bonsai especially. Read Harry Harringtons article on bonsai4me dealing with this subject. It took me a long time and many dollars to find this out for myself. So please have a water quaility check done.

Mitch

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