Bonsai as fine-art object ?

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Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  Robert Steven on Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:54 am

I don't know how you think about this creation displayed at the ‎2011 EXHIBITION CHARLOTTE PERRIAND in OSAKA.
Is this what the Japanese young generation think about bonsai ? the new generation's expression against the old tradition ?..or any message they want to convey to the bonsai lovers...

See here http://amkk.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2011-11-17




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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  drgonzo on Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:05 am

Nevermind.


Last edited by drgonzo on Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:07 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : not worth it)

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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  abcd on Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:02 am

Nevermind

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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  marcus watts on Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:38 am



i like the green bamboo 'sculptures' and can appreciate the first time someone has used a plant like this as a 3d picture (not bonsai - no pot ! Very Happy ) i dont think every house will have one ! but each to their own, i would certainly go and see an exhibition like this, and its no different bare rooting a tree to look at than it is to cut flowers and foliage for a flower arrangement. Also of course there is a huge amount of inexpensive material like this available over there.

well found - it was interesting

marcus

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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  Tony on Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:36 am

Marcus is absolutely correct and Robert started the post by posing a question "Is this what the Japanese young generation think about bonsai ?" I think that we are being a tad precious about our 'art' and that the work that features bonsai is simply another expression of her approach. Here is another piece by CHARLOTTE PERRIAND would flower lovers be outraged?


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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  Tatang Nuryaman on Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:03 am

It's just too complicated and so confusing for me Suspect

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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  Robert Steven on Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:16 pm

tony wrote:Marcus is absolutely correct and Robert started the post by posing a question "Is this what the Japanese young generation think about bonsai ?" I think that we are being a tad precious about our 'art' and that the work that features bonsai is simply another expression of her approach. Here is another piece by CHARLOTTE PERRIAND would flower lovers be outraged?

My question was more for the last one "..any message to convey to the bonsai lovers ?" ..considering this exhibition was in Japan. Although I don't know who the artist was, but from the material used, I assume he/she should know a little bit about what bonsai was (especially for the Japanese). Another thing that made me raised the question was that, as we all know, most Japanese bonsai masters try to teach us how to respect bonsai in many ways, kind of sacral...
So I am just wondering what the Japanese bonsai lovers in Japan would say about this.

In the above context, I would not compare the use of these bonsai with the use of flowers for Ikebana or fruits for the last creation. Just wondering if these bonsai would be replanted..or maybe they don't care... Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  Todd Ellis on Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:07 pm

I believe in free expression and would like to talk with the artist (s) who create this art. My main question is whether or not they used live material. It would be a shame if they purposely killed (or let die) trees for their expression; something "akin" to killing an animal for the same purpose. I don't read Japanese so I cannot read the descriptions.

The apparent symbolism to me is "putting bonsai in a box". Is this the message? If so then "culture" or "tradition" can be described at "fitting in a box"...

I would much rather see bonsai growing and thriving in soil in a ceramic or stone "box". I do like the flowers in the box.

Thank you for posting this.

Best,
Todd

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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  JimLewis on Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:11 pm

I'm with Marcus and Tony. I doubt this has anything to do with "bonsai" per se. They are images. designs, impressions. There is a lot of art that I neither understand nor like. This comes somewhere between. The designs are nice, but I don't see myself hanging them on any of my walls. The don't stir any great degree of compassion in me, either.

They are, like our bonsai, just plants.

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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  Guest on Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:26 pm

Robert Steven wrote:I don't know how you think about this creation displayed at the ‎2011 EXHIBITION CHARLOTTE PERRIAND in OSAKA.
Is this what the Japanese young generation think about bonsai ? the new generation's expression against the old tradition ?..or any message they want to convey to the bonsai lovers...

See here http://amkk.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2011-11-17





...they are WITHIN the box,Making this idea too ordinary and common,,,, the artist/s should "think out of the box"hehehe Razz


Kidding aside, I think (maybe my interpretation only) this can be interpreted as a form of rebellion attacking the very stiff norms of bonsai specially in Japan. A bonsai art being confined in box, with no forward movement or progress.


regards,
jun Smile




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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  Bob Pressler on Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:51 pm

To each his own I guess. I don't understand it but that's just me.

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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  Rob Kempinski on Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:55 pm

My take on this begs the question "Is bonsai a monolith? With only one way to do it or show it?"

I like Japanese display but it amazes me how so many other cultures are trying to slavishly mimic Japanese display when 1. their home country has tremendous art tradition, and 2. Not even bonsai display in Japan is 100% consistent or the same.

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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  sunip on Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:00 pm

...they are WITHIN the box,Making this idea too ordinary and common,,,, the artist/s should "think out of the box"hehehe Razz
Kidding aside, I think (maybe my interpretation only) this can be interpreted as a form of rebellion attacking the very stiff norms of bonsai specially in Japan. A bonsai art being confined in box, with no forward movement or progress.
regards,
jun Smile [/quote]
Nice thinking on some philosophical tensions June.
Beside of all, it gives me a certain tension.
I want to put it in a pot and WATER it!
Sunip Wink


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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  will baddeley on Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:41 pm

I quite like these instalations and the mixed feelings they give me. I see old trees symbolising life/traditions hanging by a thread or in the balance. The external structure not allowing anyone to help put thing right or at least try. The fast pace of modern life and technology is so far removed from the recent past. An inability to understand or respect cultural history or a more patient way of life.

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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  mike page on Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:12 pm

Every art form will generate avantgarde artists. Most of them will have no effect, but a few will influence the future of the art. There are some bonsai artists I can think of that were considered avantgarde, but are main stream now.

Mike

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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  Guest on Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:15 pm

I think Jun's response is right on the mark.

However, I can only speak for myself and maybe I am not getting the art, but this certainly goes against my perception of bonsai. To me bonsai says something about growth, change and nature.

- S

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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  JimLewis on Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:18 pm

but this certainly goes against my perception of bonsai.

Probably because it is NOT bonsai and is not intended to BE bonsai. It's just a picture!

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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  Guest on Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:20 pm

Thank God its just a picture. It is hard to tell from where I am sitting.

Now I feel better.

- S

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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  will baddeley on Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:12 pm

JimLewis wrote:
but this certainly goes against my perception of bonsai.

Probably because it is NOT bonsai and is not intended to BE bonsai. It's just a picture!

Looks to me like a tree suspended in a metal cage.

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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  Guest on Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:46 pm

JimLewis wrote:
but this certainly goes against my perception of bonsai.

Probably because it is NOT bonsai and is not intended to BE bonsai. It's just a picture!


...a picture speaks a thousand words.

by definition it is not a "tree in a pot". more like an uprooted "bonsai", or was a bonsai telling something to the bonsai fanatics- Twisted Evil ... "your art form is better be displayed this way" or "the tree might die this way, but it serve it's purpose as an art"

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  Mirek Halatin on Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:27 pm

Different look:

I can see in this artistic instalation very clean composition of plant... as system, as organism, as entity that have to be watched, studied, loved or maby hated.... and frame which focus your eyes on it and, with same importance, free space all around, which urge you to stay for a moment longer. It is subject that have to be discussed.

"Why the hell whithout a soil?" Soil is in this case like a clothes. You know what is under (and sometimes you can see it) but if you want to think about it, you have to see it naked. It could be explanation of forming living system. It can denote differentiation of plant parts which co-operating together keep self alive. And this is very inspirating for me. People discuss auxins and many other phytohormons in time, when most of us don't know what the plant really is.
For me it needs more humility to talk about plants, trees, especially bonsai.

I think that these pictures can be very enriching for us, but don't think like "where the hell is the pot? Is it bonsai? Yeah, there is Sai but not Bon."

Maby these trees will die. But everyone of us killed more with less thinking... Idea Wink

Have a nice time my friends,

Mirek

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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  Orion on Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:21 am

What happens when it eventually dies? No more exhibit? It doesn't remind me of bonsai, it doesn't look like like bonsai, if that's what the artist is trying to do.

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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  quatrefi on Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:52 am

The artist explains his work here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDYtWstJo3M

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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  Robert Steven on Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:57 am

Good find, thanks..That's what I wanted to know..the message he wants to convey..despite of we like it or not.....

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Re: Bonsai as fine-art object ?

Post  Guest on Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:14 am

" ...the steel frame represents the rules, what we have to do, the laws..." I almost got it, it is about the stiff norms of bonsai and how confined it is.

I thought Robert's bonsai is the ultimate avant-garde of bonsai. Your work Robert now seems too conservative... Razz hehehe.

regards,
jun Smile


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