Do you have an ego?

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Do you have an ego?

Post  Tony on Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:56 pm

Suspect There is a lot of talk about ego's in the world of bonsai but I have discovered that anyone searching "View your Posts" automatically gets given an ego: http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/search?search_id=egosearch so there you have it...

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  Guest on Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:07 pm

Tony,

Does this means my ego is as long/huge as 8 pages? and still growing everyday...
...or are you saying something else? Shocked Surprised


regards,
jun Smile


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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  Tony on Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:24 pm

Jun only YOU can answer that my friend..on the subject of EGO, Shawn Barber tell it like this:

"I think that the single most detrimental barrier in becoming a better artist is the brick wall facade of ego.
Most artists are raised in an environment surrounded by accolades- at an early age, being praised for their artistic talents.
Positive reinforcement from your peers, especially at a young age, can lead to the misconstrued belief in ones own genius.
Years of being 'the best in class' and winning chunks of brass trophies may definitely stroke the 'masters' subconscious.
It's a high hurdle to jump, but it's possible with the leap of critical faith. Sincerity, honesty, self criticism and a big ole piece of humble pie are a perfect starting point. Understand first that you're actually not that good at what you do and you'll never be as near as good as the greats- and you're ready for the life long journey as a student of your chosen craft.

If you step outside of your comfort zone and challenge yourself to acknowledge your weaknesses, are completely critical of your shortcomings, and sincerely internalize your habits (good and bad), you will be amazed by the progression waiting ahead of you. Critically analyze how close your work reveals it's influence, however narrow or broad, and consistently add new influences into the mix. Fear of change or, even worse, external judgement from fans of your art, will destroy any hopes of real progress. Authenticity comes from fearlessness. Take the leap."

Nicely put.

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  fiona on Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:06 pm

Tony, I agree with a lot of what Shawn Barber is saying there, BUT for his suggestions to work it will require the persons to think and act as individuals and sadly most of our systems do not allow for that. And possibly just possible our education systems are the worst offenders - in the past for going too far down the line of treating everyone uniformly and stamping out individuality, and of late going too far in the opposite direction of stamping out excellence in the name of letting every child be a "winner" (or at least not letting them "lose" anything, heaven forfend!) Even more sadly, that latter scenario there is in Scotland anyway the result of misguided attempts to "enhance creativity" by never criticising. From what I've seen working with high school and college students, all it has done is promote mediocrity which is accompanied by rather a lot of plain ego in some cases, and self-delusion in many more. Just watch X-Factor if you want to see this in action.

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  Mitch - Cedarbog on Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:52 pm

Perfectly said, theres alot of ego to go around. Just if people would shut up, listen, learn, and be open minded, the art may be that much more further progressed. I will never consider myself the best nor do i plan to be. I will always pursue further education but its quite disheartening when newbies come along and throw out their own techniques like they have done it for years while i have learned over tge course of the last decade. Its an insult to those who have worked hard to learn what they have learned.

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  fiona on Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:50 pm

Hmm. I think I agree with some of that. But it seems to me that telling people to "shut up, listen, learn" implies rather a lack of "open-mind" from the person doing the telling.

Similarly there is an element in what you say of that old chestnut of "walking before you can run". I have never agreed with that because it means that those among us who are gifted enough are held back. Of course for the great many walking is an essential first stage, but I have all too often seen gifted students, sportspeople and yes even bonsaists being held back because of that attitude from others. And when the progress of someone with ability is held back simply because the "teacher" can't accept that the student is more gifted than they are, well that is cruel and callous, and in the situation it is only too clear to me where the "ego" lies.

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  Guest on Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:40 pm

tony wrote:Jun only YOU can answer that my friend..on the subject of EGO, Shawn Barber tell it like this:

"I think that the single most detrimental barrier in becoming a better artist is the brick wall facade of ego.
Most artists are raised in an environment surrounded by accolades- at an early age, being praised for their artistic talents.
Positive reinforcement from your peers, especially at a young age, can lead to the misconstrued belief in ones own genius.
Years of being 'the best in class' and winning chunks of brass trophies may definitely stroke the 'masters' subconscious.
It's a high hurdle to jump, but it's possible with the leap of critical faith. Sincerity, honesty, self criticism and a big ole piece of humble pie are a perfect starting point. Understand first that you're actually not that good at what you do and you'll never be as near as good as the greats- and you're ready for the life long journey as a student of your chosen craft.

If you step outside of your comfort zone and challenge yourself to acknowledge your weaknesses, are completely critical of your shortcomings, and sincerely internalize your habits (good and bad), you will be amazed by the progression waiting ahead of you. Critically analyze how close your work reveals it's influence, however narrow or broad, and consistently add new influences into the mix. Fear of change or, even worse, external judgement from fans of your art, will destroy any hopes of real progress. Authenticity comes from fearlessness. Take the leap."

Nicely put.



I totally agree, not just in art or in bonsai. but in most aspect of life and work. even heroes of nations got the same environment and upbringing like the one told above.
...but I always look at the bottom line. success is success good is good. heroes like Alexander the Great, Napoleon (is he a hero), and even mythical characters like king Arthur got the same issues- huge "Egos" yet, they use this seemingly negative character as a tool for success and conquered the "world".

BTW. In my personal case, I haven't won anything...and work most of the time alone ever since I do bonsai. I think I should purchase some of that "ego" in a grocery nearby Razz

PS. Tony, I took no offense. I love you



regards,
jun Smile



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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  Mitch - Cedarbog on Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:34 am

Ok, it seems to be translated the wrong way here.
First, my wording is way off as i look at it again in hindsight. What i am basically saying is always have a half full cup of coffee...if you catch my drift. Let your mind absorb some info which will only stand to help the new comer. My wordings are sometimes sharp without intent. I love helping and LISTENING to new enthusiasts because a fresh face is as good as gold when it comes to the future of bonsai. Theres one in southern ohio, Jake4bonsai, who has in fact opened my eyes to alot. Hes been doing thissince february of this year and the way he absorbs info is truely a gift! Hes going to be producing fine material in the coming years. It is a joy to help him out and very informative to listen to him. With the exception of Jake, its awful difficult to find true genuine and dedicated newcomers that can absorb in ways like jake. Nothing in my statement intentionally implies holding anyone back. I am not sure how you picked that one out.

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  Tony on Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:08 am

I love that this post has been throughout... civilised.... no egos's coming into play. Jun you are a great contributor to the forum and certainly I am not offended... you only need to Visit Burrs to see how I deflect the brickbats that are aimed at me Laughing

I am certain that Ego IS an important element in an artists personality... I am happier to call it self belief...

From wikipedia: Ego is a Latin word meaning "I", cognate with the Greek "Εγώ (Ego)" meaning "I", often used in English to mean the "self", "identity" or other related concepts.

So its not SO bad after all Cool

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‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  landerloos on Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:55 am

No problems with egos, more the way some use there ego Wink
Everybody hase an ego, and thank who ever for that.

Peter

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  fiona on Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:08 pm

Et ego in Arcadia.

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  Tony on Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:25 pm

fiona wrote:Et ego in Arcadia.

My goodness you are SUCH an intellectual Fiona Rolling Eyes

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Tony Tickle.. "that's not your real name is it?"

‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  fiona on Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:01 pm

A capite ad calcem

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  Guest on Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:32 am

Oh...very intellectually deep meaning for Ego.... my limited knowledge of the English language thought it is an acronym for--- Exceptionally Good (but) Overrated....very true for most bonsai egoist.

Razz

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  AlainK on Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:00 am

The button "view your own messages" is useful when you want to show one of your trees as an illustrration for a problem or a question in a new thread. This simply saves you the time you spend to find the original photo on your computer(s), and storage space on the server.

Since it means being careful not to waste the community's resources, it's more a sign of responsible behavior than the mark of an over-sized ego. Cool

Though typing a reply in this thread might well be a symptom of wiseguyism.... Rolling Eyes






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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  fiona on Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:24 am

There's a case to be argued that joining a forum and posting on it is a sign of ego in any circumstances.

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:15 pm

I have an ego ...

AND SEVERAL ALTER EGOS!

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  Tony on Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:40 pm

Jay Gaydosh wrote:I have an ego ...

AND SEVERAL ALTER EGOS!

wow Jay an Alter ego! I never thought of you as a priest Suspect

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Tony Tickle.. "that's not your real name is it?"

‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  Robert Steven on Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:56 am

tony wrote: Suspect There is a lot of talk about ego's in the world of bonsai but I have discovered that anyone searching "View your Posts" automatically gets given an ego: http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/search?search_id=egosearch so there you have it...


jun wrote:Tony,

Does this means my ego is as long/huge as 8 pages? and still growing everyday... Laughing
...or are you saying something else? Shocked Surprised


regards,
jun Smile


Jun, seems my ego is not under yours.. Laughing
I don't see any problem with ego in positive sense. Most of great artists, politicians or whatever..have strong ego. Without it, you don't have the confidance and drive to express and to convince. But ego can be a problem when one think he is the best, irrespect to others and try to force his own thought as the only truth.

My Grandma's wisdom : It's almost impossible for one to be real humble, because once you think you are humble, you are already not...


Last edited by Robert Steven on Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:08 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : mistype)

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  fiona on Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:03 pm

Robert Steven wrote: It's almost impossible for one to be real humble, because once you think you are humble, you are already not...

A paradox, a paradox, a most ingenious paradox.

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  Mitch Thomas on Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:11 pm

Hey Tony
You know what EGO stands for
E verybodys
G ot
O ne

Just like opinions and --- -----
Ha ha!!

Mitch

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  marcus watts on Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:32 pm

yes Laughing Laughing

everyone answering has...............but in a good way.........the ones with the wrong type of ego wont post a reply

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  will baddeley on Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:11 pm

marcus watts wrote:yes Laughing Laughing

everyone answering has...............but in a good way.........the ones with the wrong type of ego wont post a reply

I'd be interested in some expansion here Marcus?

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  Rob Kempinski on Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:12 am

It's a bug, I think the programmers meant "ergo!"

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Re: Do you have an ego?

Post  fiona on Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:43 pm

Rob Kempinski wrote:It's a bug, I think the programmers meant "ergo!"

Cogitas.

Ergo es.


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Re: Do you have an ego?

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