Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  Robert Steven on Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:40 am

Marcus, no matter what bonsai style you are going to work, you should have your vision, but NOT obsession..let the available material tell you what they can be designed the best.

For forest, it depends very much on the material available..then use your imagination to design how those "trees" can look beautiful as a captured panorama in nature like when you click with your camera... The golden-key is the natural phenomena, especially the morphological aspect so that the scenery look natural and logical.


Last edited by Robert Steven on Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:52 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : mistype)

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  Robert Steven on Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:43 am

Jun, here is my second option on your new composition..with the similar comment as the first one on the focal point and viewing flow...



..and here is my simulation to improve the unity with the "assymetrical balance" concept :




Last edited by Robert Steven on Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:46 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : mistype)

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  hirow08 on Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:49 am

Speechless...

Now i know why so many people have already bought your book ThumbsUp

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  Guest on Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:32 pm

Robert Steven wrote:Jun, here is my second option on your new composition..with the similar comment as the first one on the focal point and viewing flow...



..and here is my simulation to improve the unity with the "assymetrical balance" concept :




This is very doable Robert, I'll play with the forest again. The rugged character is more define now. Thanks!

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  Guest on Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:36 pm

Marcus,

I wont mind at all. This thread is for all,,,a learning tool for all of those who wanted to learn more.


regards,
jun Smile



Hirow,

A big Yup my friend.
...it will help you a lot. that I can assure you.

regards,
jun Smile


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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  bumblebee on Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:56 pm

This latest one makes me want to get behind the middle tree to see what's back there! Very nice.

Libby

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  Robert Steven on Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:54 am

Yes, Libby..good that you sense the concept of the Chinese Penjing on this aspect " 形断意连,迹断势连; 神龙见首不见尾 "... Laughing

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  marcus watts on Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:25 am

Robert Steven wrote:For forest, it depends very much on the material available..then use your imagination to design how those "trees" can look beautiful as a captured panorama in nature like when you click with your camera... The golden-key is the natural phenomena, especially the morphological aspect so that the scenery look natural and logical.

Thanks for the excelent advice - this bonsai project is to capture the sight of a real forest that sits totally on a hill top, quite near to my home. You go round a corner on a main road and there is a perfect forest, many trunks, one canopy, nothing man made in view - it gives me pleasure every time i drive the road, and being deciduous it changes with the seasons. I will take the camera when the light is good.

i started the project last year with a forest planting of young inexpensive beech trees sold for hedges - in leaf it was ok, but the trees were all equal thickness and the forest looked wrong with no initial focal point. (the real forest is all equal trunks, but somethings dont work as bonsai as well as nature) this year i have picked up 3 trees with thicker trunks and 7 much smaller seedlings that grew from the trees in my garden - now i have a nice variety of trunk thicknesses. 7 thin ones, 23 medium ones and 3 progressively larger ones.

best regards Marcus

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  Robert Steven on Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:16 am

I will love to see the landscape Marcus...

Why don't you post your forest to share with us ?

In fact, in forest style, you can also do with numbers of similar size material. In this case, it will portray a long distant view; then the overall silhouette is more important than the obvious details of individual trees and the focal point can consist of a group of trees. That's the difference with close-up view. In close-up view, normally you use trees with more significant size to suggest the close-up focal point..then you should refine more details on the each...

Look at Jun's last design, it suggest a more distant view :


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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  Guest on Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:45 am

Hi all
This is my latest attempt to revise the composition near to Robert's virt.







This is how huge the forest is...



I could still squeeze in the clumps of trees at the back and be almost the same as Robert's suggestion., but I need to reduce the branches of the two clumps that are blocking each other....Those are really old branches., So what do you think guys? squeeze in more or it is it okey this way?

regards,
jun Smile


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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  Robert Steven on Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:59 am

Yes and no, it's not very important, but one most important point is to avoid the same distance among the three trees. So if you can not squeeze in the clump, then place the small one closer.

Other points :
- Look from bird-view or from the sides, avoid the three trees placement in one straight line.
- Turn slightly the clump to let the right stretching branch pointing to the front.
- Play a little bit on the contour with the green moss formation (up and down, and in and out), form overlapping gaps to create gaps illusion.
- Make more space in front in concave shape with the help of the green moss formation...

All the above points are to create better perspective.

Good luck Jun..great work ! thumbs up


Last edited by Robert Steven on Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:02 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : mistype)

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  Guest on Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:05 pm

Thanks for the added pointers Robert. I'll check every detail of the forest from your perspective.

...this is a very tough specie and can easily handle repeated torture. A very good tool for learning.

regards,
jun Smile Smile

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  Guest on Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:13 pm





Hi again Robert.


"Turn slightly the clump to let the right stretching branch pointing to the front"---This I don't get. Do you mean the hanging branch in the right side most, should slightly point to the front/forward. because I am trying to move it to point to the rear to create depth in perspective.

The concave front layout of the contour is the one I missed/forgot. I remember I read it from somewhere...from one of your works and drawing.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  Robert Steven on Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:28 pm

You should move the hanging branch to point to the front and not to the back because it's the end of the directing line you draw the viewing flow. By doing this, you also create the concave shape..so called the culvilinear perspective. You don't need to create background with this pointing because the background illusion has been created by the small tree on the left. This is the one you need to place pointing to the back.

Other depth illusion can be created by the land contour..the gaps !

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  Guest on Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:02 pm

Got it Robert. It is very clear now.

many thanks! Darn, I still got so much to learn...Do you need a worker in Indonesia?, I can cook, I can do gardening, I can drive. Razz


regards,
jun Smile


Last edited by jun on Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  Robert Steven on Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:06 pm

Come with someone can do good massage... bounce

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  Guest on Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:17 pm

Robert Steven wrote:Come with someone can do good massage... bounce


lot of them here. I take my massage session twice a week. massage here like Thai, Swedish, Shiatsu cost only US9.00 per hour.
I'll treat you to one (all you want) when you get here... Laughing


regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  Robert Steven on Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:22 pm

jun wrote:
Robert Steven wrote:Come with someone can do good massage... bounce


lot of them here. I take my massage session twice a week. massage here like Thai, Swedish, Shiatsu cost only US9.00 per hour.
I'll treat you to one (all you want) when you get here... Laughing


regards,
jun Smile

cheers cheers ...Still workingon my schedule... Bagpiper

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  marcus watts on Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:47 pm

jun.......i can cook, i can drive, i can wire the little branches neatly.............i have a tight knot under my shoulder though, !! 27$ of massage will make me a new man haha

robert, re my forest
i have cleaned up all the old leaves from my material trees but need to drive to take a picture of the real forest - today was very foggy ! - plus we had to make 750kg of fishing bait to earn a living Very Happy

here is a quick picture of the material trees- the 3 bigger trees are not thinned or reduced yet but i think the heavy top growth needs cutting out of them.



jun - your group of trees is really coming along - wow, the attention to details we need with Roberts guidance is fantastic - best threads on ibc for ages

best regards Marcus

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  marcus watts on Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:54 pm

these are the larger trees - my hope is for a forest with the eye drawn to the left -to the main tree-(s) and the forest getting shorter as it goes to the right - but maybe the smaller of the 3 trees within the right side of the planting to add an interesting trunk to this side of the planting?


it is becoming clear the vision & production of a good forest is not as simple as a single tree - but the reward is greater for the view of nature and balance when it is done well and works

thanks to you both

marcus



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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  Guest on Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:25 am

Marcus,
these are very nice forest/group planting materials. The branches and twigs are perfect, and the trees, even the small ones got a uniform character.

I'll try to do some sketch for a forest design if you won't mind.


regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  Robert Steven on Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:16 am

Marcus,

It would be perfect if you have some sizes in between the largest and the rest, the tiny ones can be very useful. Looks like they are more suitable for a long distant view...however, I'd love to see your vision.

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  marcus watts on Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:01 pm

here is the real forest.........long distance view,i think from this far back they are the same species as my material.



jun, sketches would be fantastic to see how you would approach the material, thankyou,

robert, yes i could do with a few medium trunks to bring the forest into proportion - the local garden centers have larger hedge material this time of year, but i will look in the undergrowth at the end of the garden first as that is where the tiny trees came from, there could be medium ones further back

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  Guest on Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:19 pm


Hi Marcus.
Instead of providing sketch for your forest idea. I looked for my old files this might work with your project.



ps . your forest scene in the field is very nice.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

Post  Robert Steven on Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:38 pm

Nice sketch Jun...
I think if the silhouette is formed rather irregular could be better, also avoid the same distance of each tree.. (my ego).. Laughing

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Re: Reborn forest...Murraya Sp.

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