Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  chench53 on Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:44 am

Thanks for the wonderful pictures, and the story. The Expo was wonderful! It is so exciting to watch all the different clubs pull their displays together, and how wonderful the trees all were. Our group had a terrific time.

Gerry
Virginia Bonsa Society


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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  AJ on Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:49 am

John Quinn wrote:Great post, Arthur. Sorry I missed the Expo this year!

Thanks, John. You were missed and I hope you will be back next year.

AJ
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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  AJ on Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:11 am

jgeanangel wrote:a fitting tribute! Thanks for taking the time Arthur!
John

Thanks, John. It was a great weekend and this will help me remember it.

kenduncan wrote:Arthur,
Thank You for another great Expo, You are the glue that holds all of this together and makes it
all work.
I enjoyed this post very much, it was a wonderful ending to the weekend.
What did Walter say about the Parkway? It was good that you could take him up there or should I down South, I think that is the most beautiful part of the Blue Ridge Parkway.
Ken

Thanks, Ken. You and the others who take the time to do something different with their displays make it worthwhile to me.
Walter seemed to really like the Parkway, although I wish he could have seen how it looks up around Graveyard Fields and the Shining Rock Wilderness. When we were in that area it was really low visibility, drizzling and cold. We dropped down in elevation to the Davidson River area and went to Looking Glass Falls and the fish hatchery before taking a 3-mile hike on the Coontree Loop trail. It was a really enjoyable experience (for me, at least) spending the day wandering through the woods and talking, mostly about bonsai but some other topics too.

JimLewis wrote:I missed the critique, too, but once again, Arthur, a super Expo. They get better every year.

Thank YOU.

Jim, I'm sorry I missed seeing you. I heard you were there both days, but I was running around a lot. I probably missed seeing a lot of people. Thanks for being there.

fiona wrote:Thanks, Arthur. I did read it to the end too. Wink

Thanks for reading, Fiona!

coh wrote:
fiona wrote:Thanks, Arthur. I did read it to the end too. Wink
Me too. Very nice summary, and thanks for doing it.

I'm still curious as to what Walter had to say about the exposed root Korean hornbeam (I think in the other thread someone mentioned that he had a lot to say about it). Anyone?

Chris

Chris, I don't know what Walter had to say about that tree because I didn't hear it. I liked that bonsai, though. It certainly wasn't Naturalistic, but I thought it had a good design and made a striking image. Thanks for reading and posting your comment.

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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  AJ on Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:33 am

drgonzo wrote:A lot of being a successful artist (as my art school wife has told me) is selling YOURSELF. You have your art, yes, but YOU also have to be a bit larger than life and I always think that criticisms of Mr. Pall seem from people not understanding that art, and artist, must BOTH be interesting, unique, outstanding and sometimes 'over the top' in order to be successful, financially and otherwise. Mr. Pall makes his living doing Bonsai, VERY few people in the world do that. Its a mark not only of mastery of subject but also mastery of market.

That having been said, I prefer and usually style in 'Naturalistic' forms. I find pictures of Walters trees very inspiring, they are easily approachable and replicable to folks like myself who have less of an artist inside them and more of an arborist. I love the shot of him at the end.
Thank you for this thread and the work you did presenting it.
-Jay

Jay, thanks for your comment. I agree with what your wife says and it definitely applies to Walter. He has both the talent and the panache needed to be a truly successful artist in his field, head and shoulders above his detractors. Some of the criticisms aimed at Walter come from people who dislike his confidently boisterous persona, as you suggest, but many come from people who flat out do not understand what he's saying. They think they understand, and they get all angry and defensive if you suggest they don't understand, but the arguments they make are all the evidence you need to see that they don't. It really doesn't matter, though. There is a fundamental truth at the core of what he is preaching, and like all truths it is not dependent on people understanding or approving of it.

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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  AJ on Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:40 am

Randy_Davis wrote: It seems to me you need to do some historical studies on what bonsai looked like 60 years ago let alone 1700 years ago. Don't mix the idea of an unchanging world with one that is constantly changing and growing.

Randy, your comments are on the mark, but you might as well walk out in the woods and make them to the rocks of the field and the stones under your feet. Everything in the world is subject to change; EVERYTHING, even the rocks and stones.

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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  AJ on Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:45 am

Jesse McMahon wrote:thanks, arthur, for a great read and pictures. already looking forward to the expo next year..

Jesse, thanks for being there. I don't have to start thinking about next year's Expo for another couple of weeks!

chench53 wrote:Thanks for the wonderful pictures, and the story. The Expo was wonderful! It is so exciting to watch all the different clubs pull their displays together, and how wonderful the trees all were. Our group had a terrific time.

Gerry
Virginia Bonsa Society

I appreciate it, Gerry. It's great having VBS on board!

AJ
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Walter Pall's demonstration tree - Scots Pine, BEFORE

Post  AJ on Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:21 am


















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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  Guest on Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:53 am

Thanks Aj. I read it all. No comments on styles/approaches but on Marmite. I was served it once by a friend, and I wonder that he is still my friend Very Happy

Regards
Morten

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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  Walter Pall on Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:23 pm

The result as of Monday. Then a quick and dirty virtual to show what the crown might look like in a couple of years and then with pot (John Pitt). This is suppsoed to look like a tree, not like a bonsai.




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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  JimLewis on Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:01 pm

This is supposed to look like a tree, not like a bonsai.

Ahhh . . . if only more people would . . . .

I was studying this tree out in the patio during the auction. It has come a long way. Lovely!

(It's about 50 times bigger than anything I'd tackle these days -- or probably, any days.)

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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  drgonzo on Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:13 pm

Now that pine looks great to me, That would probably catch my eye more than a more styled, abstract, tree.

To Me, Trees look more like Bonsai when they look more like trees. I hope that makes sense. But thats just my aesthetics.
-Jay

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Walter Pall's demonstration tree - Scots Pine AFTER

Post  AJ on Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:47 pm
















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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  Rob Kempinski on Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:39 pm

That's an interesting pine.

What's the most southernly area that Scots Pine can live in the SE USA?

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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  Randy_Davis on Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:42 pm

Rob Kempinski wrote:That's an interesting pine.

What's the most southernly area that Scots Pine can live in the SE USA?

Rob,

The USDA shows it above the mason-dixon line. It has naturalized in the northern great lake states and appears as far south as Southern IL, OH, IN KY etc..... Not a good pine for the warm winter areas. Commonly grown as a commerical Christmas tree on large farms

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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  will baddeley on Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:18 am

drgonzo wrote: and I always think that criticisms of Mr. Pall seem from people not understanding that art
-Jay
This has been said before and I take exception to this "emperor's new clothes" statement. David has a point but it could have been said with a little less venom. I do not doubt Walters passion, enthusiasm and ability to hold a crowd but I fail to see a great deal of change in the above Scots demo, other than a thin out and bending down or spreading of branches. I do not recognise this transformation as a Scots Pine either. It looks more like an old deciduous tree to me.
Discuss?........I hope.

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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  fiona on Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:54 am

will baddeley wrote: I fail to see a great deal of change in the above Scots demo, other than a thin out and bending down or spreading of branches.
I don't see how we can criticise him (or anyone else) for that, given that a recurring comment on the forum is how demos are contrived and damaging to tree health because they do too much at one sitting. Perhaps we have gone too far in the direction of "entertainment" in demos and less down the road of how to take a tree and start it on a long journey towards what the artist sees as its end result.


Last edited by fiona on Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  Walter Pall on Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:07 am

One part of my lecture was that naturalistic bonsai can be made of material that otherwise does not seem very fit for 'bonsai'. This particular tree material was not good for a regular bonsai at all. Regardless of what many think from looking at the before images, a standard bonsai could only have been mad by stripping almost all branches and start the crown anew. It would have looked atrocious after the demonstration and would have taken five to ten years to look somewhat acceptable.
Anyway, it is perfectly honorable to not like the result. But this does not necessarily mean the whole idea is bad.

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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  Walter Pall on Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:10 am

The pine tree is a Pallsai. This term was invented to insult me. I think it is a good term for trees that absolutely have no idea that they are a bonsai.

Azaleas are almost always styled to look like an ideal pine trees with flowers. I call that kitsch. Junipers are always styled to look like a pine tree. Broadleaved trees are designed very often to look like a juniper which desperately tries to look like a pine tree which was styled by a Kimuraist.
If all this is the case, why can a Scots pin not look like a Scots pine which grows on a healthy spot in a meadow and looks a bit like a broadleaved tree. They sometimes look like this actually.

One line in my lectures is like this:
John Naka said something along the lines 'don't try to make your tree look like a bonsai, try to make your bonsai look like a tree'. OK, so when one wants to achieve this one must know what a bonsai looks like. And avoid every single aspect of the bonsai look. And the result is a little tree in a pot that looks like a real tree if you have some artistic skill.
You may it well call Pallsai. I will be honored.

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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  newzealandteatree on Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:00 pm

Walter: Quote Azaleas are almost always styled to look like an ideal pine trees with flowers. Unquote.

Does this azalea bonsai of mine looks like pine ?
There is a saying " Those who speak do not know and those who know do not speak. "
Cheers, CJ.


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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  Guest on Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:07 pm

Just a comment with a general aim in mind, that I want to put in to this discussion. It is the fact that we all too often uses material that really isn´t suitable for bonsai. If the tree doesn’t have the qualities of being good for a future bonsai, why do we then (all too often) use it as if it is? We see thick trunks, but with poor root base not ever possible to correct. Fantastic deadwood, but branches or trunks newer supposed to be a bonsai! I believe that we should look much more after overall quality in the material we use, and be more critical about what we use for what. Not possible for an artist who are given a piece to work on, but those who delivers the material needs to be more critical, instead of expecting wonders with material that doesn’t have the talent. Sometimes we look too hard for spectacular trees instead of seeing the beauty in simple but good material too.

Regards, Morten

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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  JimLewis on Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:32 pm

newzealandteatree wrote:Walter: Quote Azaleas are almost always styled to look like an ideal pine trees with flowers. Unquote.

Does this azalea bonsai of mine looks like pine ?
There is a saying " Those who speak do not know and those who know do not speak. "
Cheers, CJ.


Oh my . . . here we go. Of course it doesn't look like a pine. But that doesn't make Walter's generalized statement false. If you look at azalea bonsai shows, many DO look pine-ish, and many deciduous bonsai also are designed with pointy tops that Ma Nature would never countenance. And pine trees often have a rounded silhouette in nature. Here's one from Arizona:



I don't think his comments merit that unkind and snide "saying" of yours. Walter is often the target of cheap shots like this. He quite capable of defending himself, but when you can come close to his record of stellar bonsai (TREE) creation, perhaps -- just perhaps -- your criticism would be worth listening to.

And I KNOW the crowd here who will react to this comment.

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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  Russell Coker on Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:52 pm

newzealandteatree wrote:Walter: Quote Azaleas are almost always styled to look like an ideal pine trees with flowers. Unquote.

Does this azalea bonsai of mine looks like pine ?
There is a saying " Those who speak do not know and those who know do not speak. "
Cheers, CJ.



CJ,

Walter was referring to satsuki bonsai produced in Japan. They look "pine-ish" for a good reason - because they are styled to look like traditional pine bonsai. I guess you either like them, or you don't.

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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  handy mick on Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:56 pm

I think those who don't like Walter Paul, want to be Walter Paul, but can't.
Jealous people make fools of them selves.

Mick

P.s. Jim can you dig that pine out so I can have Walter style it for me?

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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  JimLewis on Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:20 pm

P.s. Jim can you dig that pine out so I can have Walter style it for me?

Hard to ship it to OZ, I'm afraid.

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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

Post  handy mick on Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:37 pm

Ok, leave Walter there and send me the tree.

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Re: Walter Pall at the Carolina Bonsai Expo

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