Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

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Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  GeorgeUK on Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:30 am



Id appriciate opinions aswell as some advice on developing a patina. Im worried that over time water will disolve the calcite but dont want to do anything to it that would be seen as incorrect by purists.

Many thanks.

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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  GeorgeUK on Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:34 pm

Its whats called a septarin nodule. Theyre thought to have formed when mud dried and cracked and the cracks got filled with calcite. Its the only one Ive seen with a round pattern like that.

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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  GeorgeUK on Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:59 pm



This one is from just south of Bridlington on the east coat of England. I see a shark head, some people I showed it to see a turtle head.

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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  Guest on Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:28 pm

Hi GeorgeUK

It is an awesome stone....
It looks to me, as the nature allready gave the stone patina....it is safe to take it inside now.

The other stone is without patina, as far as I can see...leave it outside in sun and rain, untill you are happy about the patina...it will take some years.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  GeorgeUK on Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:48 pm

Thankyou Very Happy I really appriciate your comments. That stone is quite big and heavy and I had to carry it from the beach up a huge steep hill. Im so glad I did now. Smile

The other one has a surface like sand paper, not unlike the skin of a shark Smile . I read somewhere that one shouldn't try to develop a patina on this type of surface. Would you agree?

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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  Norma on Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:25 pm

Hi George,

What a great find...this is something I've never seen! Your instinct is correct that because of the rare calcite pattern the stone should not be weathered nor should any oil be applied. I have several stones that I dust with nylon which I learned from Sean Smith , a technique his Japanese suiseki master used. Most of the stone can have the patina enhanced by polishing but I wouldn't touch the pattern. Do you plan to carve a daiza for the stone?

The other stone seems too porous to ever have suiseki patina but it would make an interesting garden stone.

Thanks for sharing !!

Best regards,
Norma


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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  GeorgeUK on Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:57 pm

Thankyou for your comments. Smile I do intend to make a dazia for it and have basic instructions in a book but as I've never done anything like it before im going to make some for the smaller stones I have first and work up to it. When you say dust with nylon do you mean a nylon brush?

I think I'll leave it as it is for now and concentrate on making dazias. I'll post the other stones I have tommorrow.

Thanks again for the input. Smile

GeorgeUK
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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  Norma on Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:06 pm


Nylon as in stockings or women's undergarments..... Embarassed Laughing

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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  Chris Cochrane on Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:44 pm

Hi George... Yvonne & Norma have shared good advice in protecting the stone until you know more-- do not expose to weather and do not oil. Rockhounds and jewelry craftsmen will be more familiar with septarian concretion than suiseki enthusiasts, and a geologist will know more about the calcite's liklihood of precipitating out in solution if left to weather. Many waterfall suiseki-- especially "thread waterfall" stones-- have calcite "waterfall" inclusions, and often they are not recommended for water aging.

While a 'patina' of stain often forms in nature, that is a far different surface than the skin formed by yoseki aging. Yvonne has confused the two before. A stone taken from natural exposure has a new skin & should be treated with dry aging (polishing with a dry cloth) or wet aging (exposure to gentle weathering). With gentle weathering including sun exposure & regular watering, a stone's pores first open and stains from the past are greatly ameliorated through sun fading and water soluability. A stone will usually turn liighter before beginning to form a skin that will age and hold water closely to its surface to enhance depth of color. This is especially important for landscape view suiseki that are appropriate for display in a suiban.

Your stone is to be appreciated for its pattern rather than as a landscape view. Color & distinction of the pattern is more important. A pattern stone does not need the dry look of a landscape view stone when drying. Many Japanese pattern stones are polished on their surface to enhance the pattern, but that polishing lowers their appreciation as naturally surfaced stones.

I would recommend indoor dry polishing. Sean shared a technique with Norma that a vendor might use to give his dry stone luster, but stockings are a petroleum product so rubbing with stocking is light oiling. If you go back to earlier post or reliable published sources, you will find evidence for not oiling as well as support for limited oiling. No one should encourage oiling for stones destined for suiban mounting & few would recommend oiling for stones with coarse grains or stones that are particularly porous (including stones featuring natural calcite surface inclusions). We see stones where oil traveled into the calcite inclusions & you do not want that. Collectors with dirty, calcite thread waterfalls will typically remove it, if shallow, to create a dry waterfall bed. You have time to learn and it is best to do no harm until you are confident.

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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  GeorgeUK on Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:34 am

Thanks for the very informative post. Discolouring the calcite would have totally spoiled it. I didn't think of the oil doing that and was thinking about it giving it some resistance to water. Thank goodness I asked here first. Smile

I gather that stones that are altered beyong grinding an uneven base and water/oil treatment such as by polishing are biseki and not true suiseki? As this stone will stand as it is with a little support at the back that a well shaped dazia would provide and so is a suiseki even in the eyes of purists that don't like base grinding I don't want to do anything irreversible to change that. It does look better when I wet part of it and then wipe it dry though. It starts to look a little bit like polished mahogany.

I'll continue to read up on the relevant areas while I make dazias and as you suggest wont do anything until I know more. Smile

GeorgeUK
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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  Guest on Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:42 am

Hi GeorgeUK

I love your new avatar...Look forward to see the stone with a diaza.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  Norma on Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:04 pm

Hi George,

As you can see there are many ways, even among stone collectors, to care for your stone. I am, as Yvonne, eager to see your stone in a daiza but take your time with this very unique stone.

Best regards,
Norma

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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  landerloos on Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:28 pm

Hi there,

I am not a stone freak, but like your circle stone, to me it reminding me of some celtic symbols, very sun like, Love it.

Peter

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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  GeorgeUK on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:16 pm

Hello everyone. Sorry for not posting in such a long while. I have been very busy studying and am currently studying Japanese language at university. As part of my degree I will be spending a year in Japan and what I'd like to do is take this stone with me to have a daiza carved from a Japanese hardwood (I'm thinking cherry). I'm wondering how best to transport a heavy rock? I'm thinking airport staff might not understand that its a suiseki and become annoyed at my taking a great big rock on the plane. I assuming some of you have experience of this so if you could advise I'd be grateful.

I'm planning on getting a box made for it too. I've seen them in pictures from shows. They look cool and I figure have the advantage of helping people understand that its a suiseki.

I've named it simply 日 (sun) because I like the kanji and its connection to Japan. Lacks imagination perhaps but it has meaning and symbolic connection to the arts homeland. What do you think?

GeorgeUK
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"connection to japan"

Post  stonener on Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:57 am

Nice stone George, agree sun is a good name
but I see a flower, spider mum or orchid
because colors of stone are earthy, warm browns & gold,
seen as rich soil were plant would grow well.
There's a lily that grows in my lower yard, similar shape & color.

"great big rock" what size is it? did I miss it?
pack it in a duffel bag, wrap it in a towel,
and then bubble wrapped, sealed with duck tape.
Hand carry it, do not check it. don't let it out of your site.
stow it over head in the plane, or under sit in front of you.
it will be x-rayed, if asked!, simply say it's a stone!
don't offer a lengthy explanation, your not the first.

Your headed in the right direct, Japan
Let the daiza maker choose the type of wood,
If experience, he will make the right choice.
"journey" is also a good name, you will both be on one.
for the rest of your life, this ones a "keeper"... Basketball
*that's a good name too*


Last edited by stonener on Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:05 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : + 2nd name)

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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  GeorgeUK on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:08 pm

Hi. Thanks for the helpful response. Its not huge, about 35x25x25cm but its oddly heavy for its size. I think the darker stone is very dense, almost like flint. The red stone is more textured and I assume more porus.

Journey.. I like that a lot. I guess people will see the sun in it anyway and journey is a name that would be more meaningful to me personally and my stone. Thankyou.

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food for though

Post  stonener on Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:40 pm

G-san
I'm not sure how to write that in Japanese, wish I did.
But many who can, I would however say that a scroll,
in calligraphy style would add nicely to your someday display.
See on this same forum "tables, Scrolls and Accents"
ask kakejiku, St George Utah, I have had the best results through him.
Good Luck on your trip, and remember it's the "Journey" that counts... Basketball


Last edited by stonener on Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : &)

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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  Kev Bailey on Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:02 pm

Lovely stone. I have a feeling that it may be Cleveland Ironstone. Google it for more info. I'm fairly sure it outcrops at Robin Hoods Bay. I collected belemnites and ammonites there a good few years ago.

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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  GeorgeUK on Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:08 am

stonener wrote:G-san
I'm not sure how to write that in Japanese, wish I did.
But many who can, I would however say that a scroll,
in calligraphy style would add nicely to your someday display.
See on this same forum "tables, Scrolls and Accents"
ask kakejiku, St George Utah, I have had the best results through him.
Good Luck on your trip, and remember it's the "Journey" that counts... Basketball

Thanks. Smile Its quite easy to write words you know in hiragana. If you google it you'll see what I mean. Non Japanese names are written in katakana which works in the same way.

A scroll is something I intend to think about when I know more about the traditions. Most of the scrolls I've seen are pictures but nothing would go above the sun. I really like the reading and writing side of the language and want to learn to do it properly with a brush so one day I could perhaps make something fitting.

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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  trantanhung_nt on Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:59 am

Hello GeorgeUK ,
I think it is a metamorphic rock , it is very special and rare .
Congratulations to this wonderful find .
Thank you ,
Hưng - Trần .

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try

Post  Harria on Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:01 am

I iam a french new member so excuse my english please. You would try to your second stone with steel wood, but I am sorry to say it, the stone don't get any form interesting, according to me
Sad

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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  fiona on Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:44 am

Why not, Harria? You're of course welcome to your opinion, but I always think you should give a reason.


Last edited by fiona on Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  dick benbow on Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:10 pm

Pretty obvious from the number of comments that folks liked your post. I see the image on the first stone NOT so much as a sun but more as a fireball from the heavens. A scroll that talks about the gallaxy beyond the sun would seem more appropriate IMHO. Thanks for sharing!

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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

Post  GeorgeUK on Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:57 pm

Kev Bailey wrote:Lovely stone. I have a feeling that it may be Cleveland Ironstone. Google it for more info. I'm fairly sure it outcrops at Robin Hoods Bay. I collected belemnites and ammonites there a good few years ago.

I collected a good few fossils from there too. Its a cool place. I was staying at staithes at the time and if you time your walk back along the beach at dusk the village all lit up is so picturesque. Im not sure of the type of rock. I think it mustve been in the boulder clay but im not sure. It was just on the beach as I walked past.

GeorgeUK
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banal shape

Post  Harria on Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:47 pm

According to me and i think according to the japonese spirit of suiseki, every stone you find cannot be able to become a suiseki. I will not explain to you which are this rules i think you know them i well has i do. But just for memory, the three things the most important are the structure(what kind of stone, durete of 6 minimum on the scale(ladder?) of Moh) the "skin" and the shape.(And others secondery ones as color). According to me with the second stone, there is only the first one of three principles who is present so I think she don't need to be highlighted by the working sum which represents the preparation(clothing business) of a daiza. I am sorry but it is only my own opinion. Embarassed

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Re: Stone from Robin Hoods bay in England.

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