Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:09 pm

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:I thought that Raintrees had complete flowers (I think that is the term) that there is no need for two trees.

I think your lack of seed may be related to growing season and climate.

I didn't know that. You're probably right that it may be the climate. I bring mine indoors for the winter.

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  reg-i on Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:54 am

Here you go Sam, It's coming along it should really start looking good once it starts warming up next seasons anyway im not as discouraged anymore im happy with the progress

Oh the branch in the middle of the trunk is sacrificial to maybe give me some better movement down the road




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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  reg-i on Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:58 am

oh yah and I wanted to share these monsters I found for 15 bucks down in Miami

pirat

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:16 pm

reg-i wrote:Here you go Sam, It's coming along it should really start looking good once it starts warming up next seasons anyway im not as discouraged anymore im happy with the progress. Oh the branch in the middle of the trunk is sacrificial to maybe give me some better movement down the road

Wow, that tree has come along quite a bit. All it takes is time now. I really like that branch in the middle. I've seen a lot of pictures of African trees where they have some low branches that have died off. I would treat that branch like an integral part of the design for quite a while and then maybe use it as a jin feature. It'll also help thicken the trunk. I know this picture isn't really how yours is shaped but I think that dead branches add a lot of character to the tree I've posted. Do you have any tips on ramification? I think you can defoliate Raintrees when they're healthy, is that right? Does that make the compound leaves smaller? Maybe some of the tropical guys can pipe in on this if they know something. Maybe we can use this thread to talk about the development of Brazilian Raintrees. I've found that they're extremely vigorous growers. I had my little one outside in the summer and brought it in for the winter in a massive south facing window and it looks like it hasn't skipped a beat. I was all prepared to buy some metal halides until I saw how much it was flourishing in front of this window. I'm working a shohin Flat top. I think it's only about 4 or 5 inches tall.


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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  reg-i on Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:24 am

Thanks Sam, Anyway I emailed Eric W. about the defoliation process on that, we talked about it before but I can't remember if he said new buds will break I know if you defoliate it that bud at the base of the leaf bracket usually puts out a new shoot and not just another leaf i'll let you know for sure by tomorrow I can't wait till next season to thicken my tree up

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:31 pm

Hey Regi. How tall is your tree? I forgot to ask before. Any thickening tips? I'll post pictures of mine as soon as I can make some time.

Happy New Year!!!!
Sam

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:36 pm

reg-i wrote:Thanks Sam, Anyway I emailed Eric W. about the defoliation process on that, we talked about it before but I can't remember if he said new buds will break I know if you defoliate it that bud at the base of the leaf bracket usually puts out a new shoot and not just another leaf i'll let you know for sure by tomorrow I can't wait till next season to thicken my tree up

The bud will be a new shoot. But, you should remove the branch tip also.

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:38 pm

Sam Ogranaja wrote:Hey Regi. How tall is your tree? I forgot to ask before. Any thickening tips? I'll post pictures of mine as soon as I can make some time.

Happy New Year!!!!
Sam

Thickening is the same with most plants, let it grow wild, the more foliage the more the trunk needs to expand to support it. Larger pots and repotting anytime roots fill the pot, could be twice a year here in Florida.

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:41 pm

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:
Sam Ogranaja wrote:Hey Regi. How tall is your tree? I forgot to ask before. Any thickening tips? I'll post pictures of mine as soon as I can make some time.

Happy New Year!!!!
Sam

Thickening is the same with most plants, let it grow wild, the more foliage the more the trunk needs to expand to support it. Larger pots and repotting anytime roots fill the pot, could be twice a year here in Florida.

Thanks Billy!!!! The temps are dropping down for you guys tonight, are you worried about your trees freezing or is it not getting that low?

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:13 pm

My tropicals have been in the greenhouse since mid November. I usually put them in at least a week before Thanksgiving. Tonight I will run a couple of small sprinklers on the floor. They will give me about 15 F of temperature rise. My place tends to be colder than the forecast so I will probably get into the very low 30's or even high 20's just before daylight tomorrow, but with the water I should be in the mid 40's, which while not the best for the tropicals, they will do OK. Right now the temp app on my iPhone says 41 but the indoor/outdoor unit says 56.

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:20 pm

I'll be hoping for the best for your plants. Sounds like you've got it figured out to a science though. I'm sure you'll be fine. Very Happy

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:34 pm

I found some older pictures of Erik's Raintree. These pics were taken Dec of 2008





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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  Jesse on Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:23 pm

What an interesting last pic there Sam. Looks like the tree is planted in the yard itself and coming up out of the grass (probably you intent when you took it). Just made me do a double take, haha.

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:00 pm

Jesse wrote:What an interesting last pic there Sam. Looks like the tree is planted in the yard itself and coming up out of the grass (probably you intent when you took it). Just made me do a double take, haha.

Actually my wife took all these pictures. She was being all artistic, I wonder if that was her intent. I'll have to ask her.

Have a great week!!!
Sam

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  reg-i on Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:27 am

I got a new cam for my birthday, and I thought I would share the progress on my flat top

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:25 pm

It's getting there in a hurry. The trunk looks kind of like it has reverse taper or is that just because of the fluting this species does? Are you planning on going to a bigger pot to speed up development or keep it in this one?

Thanks for posting!!! Keep the pictures coming Smile
Sam

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  Eastern Bonsai on Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:21 pm

Hello All,

I have a Rain Tree I have been training for a couple years now and I was wondering, if there is any adverse affect to remove the thorns on them. I have seen a few nice examples attached to this post and it appears as if some may have been removed.

Thanks,
Abe

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:37 pm

Raintrees get reverse taper, Alan Carver (his grandfather, Jim Moody, introduced the Raintree to Bonsai) says it is natural and not negative in Raintree Bonsai.

I always remove thorns on mine, if fact if you prune after the first new leaf you will find that it doesn't have thorns. When new growth comes out the first leaf doesn't have a thorn with, after that they all do. So, when I prune I prune at that leaf. I miss a few and have to clip thorns, which I also do on a regular basis. I have a Raintree in bloom today.

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  reg-i on Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:03 am

Here's Alan Carver at are club meeting this month with J. Moody's first rain tree after its restyle



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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  reg-i on Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:05 am

hourglass taper!

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  drgonzo on Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:33 am

reg-i wrote:hourglass taper!

And what I have been told is the Raintree's pernicious lack of good surface roots. Erik Wigert shared with me some pictures of work he was doing on a specimen I'm acquiring from him that involved a ton of branch removal just to avoid the these taper issues.
-Jay

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:37 pm

drgonzo wrote:
reg-i wrote:hourglass taper!

And what I have been told is the Raintree's pernicious lack of good surface roots. Erik Wigert shared with me some pictures of work he was doing on a specimen I'm acquiring from him that involved a ton of branch removal just to avoid the these taper issues.
-Jay

Don't keep the secrets, Jay. Share 'em brother. LOL

From what I understand, some Raintrees have more of a tendency to create fluting and flattening of the trunk with age than others and so this creates an illusion of lack of taper, or sometimes too much taper making it a difficult tree to capture in 2D images. I know mine (which I think are cuttings from Jim Moody's tree) have this feature and they look more tapered from the front and while simply looking at it at an angle which isn't the front makes it look like a completely non-tapered trunk. I like that though with these trees. I find that it makes me look at it more and more and therefore it makes me enjoy it more.

Have a great week!!!
~Sam

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  reg-i on Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:56 pm

pic#1 This is one of my other rain trees. I want to show you how the branches pull out the trunk and affect the Taper.
pic#2 This is the front of my tree notice the deceiving taper, there's also a sacrificial branch halfway up the trunk that im using to try to give it some movement. Also there's a big root on the right side that may pull the tamper out some
pic#3 This is the left side, notice the taper



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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:14 am

How tall is this guy Reggie? Looking good.

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Post  reg-i on Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:08 pm

also if you look close at the last pic that sacrificial is pulling the trunk out already and if you look at my first post and its dates I started this tree 7 months ago and that branch was 2 little leafs. I'll measure the tree later for yah Sam


Last edited by reg-i on Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

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