Red or Black Pine?

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Red or Black Pine?

Post  mrtnbrstw on Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:41 pm

Hi all

Can anyone help me in identifying a pine?

I recently aquired this one, but upon closer inpsection I'm not sure whether it's a Japanese Red Pine (Pinus Densiflora) or a Japanese Black Pine (Pinus Thunbergii), or even something different?! This photo shows the bark. The needles are in pairs. Any help gratefully received!

Can't seem to upload the photo... Sad



Photo uploaded! (found the tutorial!)

mrtnbrstw
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Re: Red or Black Pine?

Post  tim stubbs on Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:06 pm

its the needles we will need to see !

tim stubbs
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Re: Red or Black Pine?

Post  mrtnbrstw on Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:48 am

Ah, thank you.

Everything I've found only talks about the bark, so I guessed that was the main method of telling the difference.

Photo of the needles to follow. Appreciate your help!


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Re: Red or Black Pine?

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:27 am

I don't know that I have seen a Red Pine, but both bark and needles look like the Black Pines I have.

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Re: Red or Black Pine?

Post  peter keane on Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:15 pm

black

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Re: Red or Black Pine?

Post  Rob Kempinski on Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:12 pm

Pinus thunbergi - J B P. Stiff needles are the key.

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Re: Red or Black Pine?

Post  mrtnbrstw on Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:46 am

Thanks Guys!

Really appreciate the answers (and the reasoning, so I can recognise for myself in the future)

When I bought it, it was described as a Red, but wasn't sure when I saw it. However, I feel in love with the trunk, bark and nebari, so decided to go for it anyway.

Here starts many years of pinching to get it back in shape...

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Re: Red or Black Pine?

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:53 am

Rob Kempinski wrote:Pinus thunbergi - J B P. Stiff needles are the key.

Rob is right. If the needles are stiff and hurt when you touch them, you got a Black pine. If they're softer, you got a Red pine. I love my Red pine, the needles are so much softer.

Have a great weekend everyone!!!
Sam

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Re: Red or Black Pine?

Post  peter keane on Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:10 pm

here's some images to help you with the difference between japanese red and black pines. The red has thinner needles that are brighter in color. The bend easily to the touch. The bud sheath is red. Red pine branches are stiffer, so care should be taken when bending. I've found them to be better producers of adventitious buds than black pine (maybe it's my luck). I've pruned terminal buds on branches in late winter, expecting them to die. Instead, the branches put out a new set of buds during the growing season that resemble the "second flush" after candle cutting... I use red pine for grafting to ponderosa pine. It's nice:)



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Re: Red or Black Pine?

Post  Alain Bertrand on Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:44 am

I've found them to be better producers of adventitious buds than black pine
I second that.

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