pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

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pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  alonsou on Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:12 pm

Hello guys,

My folks have decide to get rid of a pomegranate that has been outside in the front yard of their place for several years (7+)

I asked them and they agreed to have me dig it out and do my little bonsai thing to it.

This is the tree in question:







Its about 5 feet tall, with a trunk about 3.5 inches. You can tell that there's not much activity on the first 12 inches of the trunk so if I graft a few seddlings to the empty area wait for the to take, and then chop and take one of those graft as the new leader would it work? My question is, how would you approach it? When will be the best time to dig it out? Anything I need to do to prepare it for the dig? Any thoughts

Thanks.

alonsou
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Re: pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  drgonzo on Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:02 pm

SURE

I'd say thats workable, If it were mine I would wait till early spring to dig it, then your looking at a trunk reduction and I would grow out a new leader for a few years..then prune back again and regrow the leader evergreen garden works has an excellent article about trunk reduction techniques if your interested.

Hopefully you've got some good nebari under there! Definitely workable! Looks good and healthy too thats most important!

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Re: pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  drgonzo on Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:03 pm

Heck you could even wait and snag some air layers off those top branches then get around to playing with the lower trunk in subsequent years!

drgonzo
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Re: pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  Loke Emil on Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:06 pm

Hi Alonsou

...just a thought. There must be a ton of possible air layerings to take from the crown - for shohin or mame bonsai. If so, then why not air layer the lot of it. After separating the new layers, dig the trunk and stump it/build a new crown.

Regards to you
/Loke Emil

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air layer or the tourniquet method ?

Post  alonsou on Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:18 pm

Which of the 2 will be more effective? air layer or the tourniquet method ? so far I had only done 2 air layers with a 50% success ratio. Crying or Very sad

alonsou
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Re: pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  drgonzo on Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:24 pm

Tourniquets are often done with ground layering, although not always of course. I think you'd have excellent luck with air layering, finding good material is in my opinion the holy grail of Bonsai and you have it here, thats a world of possibility right there! Watch Graham potters you tube video instructional on air layering and give it another go I say. This tree looks like it would give ample opportunity for practice!

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Re: pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  alonsou on Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:33 pm

air layering's are also time specific right? should I wait until early spring to do it? BTW the air layer that took root was done on a Trident maple just at the beginning of June, a month later, the plastic wrap was removed and full of new roots.

alonsou
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Re: pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  drgonzo on Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:04 am

I'm only just beginning with air-layers myself, my understanding is that timing is very important and is very localized to climate and growth timing. Ie.. in Up-state NY, where I am, I have to wait until the first flush of leaves JUST harden off in order to get the callous to form BEFORE the wood rots in the sphagnum bag, BUT early enough to give time for roots to form. Some in more forgiving climates do it just at bud break, A safe rule of thumb I have read is wait till that first set of leaves in the spring just begin to harden off. Its a technique that once mastered opens up a HUGE source of material for the Bonsaist or gardener in general and its worth persevering with, because the rewards can be excellent.

drgonzo
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Re: pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  Russell Coker on Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:26 am

Sorry, but all I see is a nice stock plant and/or a pretty garden tree.

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Re: pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  GerhardGerber on Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:13 am

Hi

A lot of people read IBC and BonsaiNut.

Cheers

GerhardGerber
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Re: pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  alonsou on Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:26 pm

GerhardGerber wrote:Hi

A lot of people read IBC and BonsaiNut.

Cheers

You are totally right, and you will always get different opinions, so why not asking on different sites? Laughing

alonsou
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Re: pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:36 pm

The 'Pom" I have used for Bonsai is a dwarf variety. Does this one have thorns?
The dwarfs backbud very well and root easily from cuttings.
I would build the biggest wooden grow box you can handle and fill it with a well drained soil.

Billy M. Rhodes
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Re: pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  alonsou on Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:12 pm

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:The 'Pom" I have used for Bonsai is a dwarf variety. Does this one have thorns?
The dwarfs backbud very well and root easily from cuttings.
I would build the biggest wooden grow box you can handle and fill it with a well drained soil.

Thanks Billy, I removed some branches yesterday to allow me to have a better view of what's "inside" I remember seeing some thorns on some of the older or death branches, here's the picture without those front branches. I'll keep in mind the wooden box Wink




alonsou
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Re: pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:48 pm

I don't think anything there now matters except for cuttings or airlayers. When you dig it you will cut it to two feet or less.

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Re: pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:50 pm

This will not be an instant Bonsai.

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Re: pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  alonsou on Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:55 pm

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:This will not be an instant Bonsai.

Yes I totally understand that part Billy, I'm not looking to have a nice Bonsai the next day, I know I will need to chop it down hard, but like it has been said before, I would like to take advantage and air layer what's worth it so I can come up with a few little mames or shohins instead of only having one tree and waste the rest, then whatever its left will be chop and I'll work it from there. Smile

alonsou
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Re: pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  Russell Coker on Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:51 pm

alonsou wrote:



This is the most interesting part of the tree I've seen so far. Why don't you layer the main trunk right at that knob on the right below that first left branch? Cut the rest of that long crazy stuff off and work with this. That's what I'd do anyway.

R

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Re: pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  drgonzo on Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:35 pm

Russell,

I'm going to pick your brain here a bit and ask what procedure you would follow to get a successful air layer from the point on the trunk you indicated. Would you reduce the canopy then perform the layer? Cut the canopy back hard and wait for a back bud situation rught above that are on the trunk then do the layer (say in a seasons time) or allow the canopy to remain full and bushy then do it? I often find situations like this with local Hawthorns where I see great potential in the MIDDLE of a tree and I always wonder how to balance the need for sufficient root development with the need to provide enough foliage to produce it. If you get my drift..

drgonzo
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Re: pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  alonsou on Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:42 pm

One more question folks,

Will it be safe for the health of the tree to do multiple air layers at the same time or should I do one at a time?

alonsou
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Re: pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:33 pm

alonsou wrote:One more question folks,

Will it be safe for the health of the tree to do multiple air layers at the same time or should I do one at a time?

I think you can do multiple layers, just not on the same trunk/branch.

Photos of my Poms

First, fruit with a golf ball



Single bloom, might be on the way to a fruit



Group of blooms on the same plant, I will prune these off later today



Three of my Poms





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Re: pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  alonsou on Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:38 pm

Awesome Billy, thanks for sharing your trees.! thumbs up

alonsou
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Re: pomegranate.. could this one work for Bonsai?

Post  marcus watts on Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:26 pm

i've seen maple airlayers done in multiples on the same branch with 100% success - the roots developed on the outer ones first / better, but once they were chopped off the inner ones developed quicker - i saw 9 successfull airlayers done at the same time from 3 branches, producing 10 trees. This was a palmatum though - maybe a pomegranite is a bit different

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