copied here for a profit

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copied here for a profit

Post  Guest on Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:28 am

hi IBC.

I visited the pot section and saw the pot of Guide made. it made me think again, Is it Erik or Guide or somebody else who made the pot design like that first?This is not about Erik or Guide...So there's no need to answer that.
but my question is- Is it not being mass produced yet in China or somewhere else?..., Is there any way that new ideas from these very fertile forum can be protected in any form against people or company especially from non IBC members who are doing research on bonsai, penjing or bonsai accessories then mass produced these new ideas for huge profit without spending a dime for research or payment for somebody who is doing the thinking. even here locally (manila), Ideas coming from IBC are being mass produce for a profit. just recently i saw lot of them.

I love the forum and all the people here (99+%) and I don't want them to be abused in any form for a profit.



regards,
jun Smile

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Re: copied here for a profit

Post  JimLewis on Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:37 pm

Is there any way that new ideas from these very fertile forum can be protected in any form against people or company especially from non IBC members who are doing research on bonsai, penjing or bonsai accessories then mass produced these new ideas for huge profit without spending a dime for research or payment for somebody who is doing the thinking.

Alas . . . no.

You just have to remember that imitation (copying) is the sincerest form of flattery -- and remember that there's not a real LOT of money to be made from things bonsai, so there's not too much incentive for mass copying. But I realize that any copying is more than enough..

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Re: copied here for a profit

Post  AlainK on Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:48 pm

I do understand your comment: a friend of mine, from Belgium, is a real DIY genius.

Among other things, he designed a device to make it easier to work on the roots of a big tree when repotting. It can be made from material that you can find in any DIY shop.

A member of a forum sent a link for an online sale by an individual of a copy of what he made, of course with no credit at all, which would have been the minimum decent thing to do. Evil or Very Mad

Of course, he can't pay for a patent, and anyway, outside Europe, you would need an army of lawuers and spend ten thousand times what it's worth, with no garantee at all you would win a lawsuit.

I don't know if a kind of "creative commons licence" could at least prevent him to be fined if ever he uses it in public and some shark had patented it somewhere, but that will be my next seach this afternoon.

You can see pictures from the link below, and the dimensions and details of the various elements in the latest version, on the third page of the thread. If you like his work, you can PM me and I'll translate and forward him your encouragements.



"Rempotoche"

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Re: copied here for a profit

Post  Guest on Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:14 pm

JimLewis wrote:
Is there any way that new ideas from these very fertile forum can be protected in any form against people or company especially from non IBC members who are doing research on bonsai, penjing or bonsai accessories then mass produced these new ideas for huge profit without spending a dime for research or payment for somebody who is doing the thinking.

Alas . . . no.

You just have to remember that imitation (copying) is the sincerest form of flattery -- and remember that there's not a real LOT of money to be made from things bonsai, so there's not too much incentive for mass copying. But I realize that any copying is more than enough..


Oh yes there is money in bonsai. lot of them if the idea/item is mass produce and without even a little fear from law suit and copyright infringement.

Some of the formulas "invented" and born here in IBC can be used in a wider range of products not limited to bonsai applications alone.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: copied here for a profit

Post  fiona on Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:06 pm

I can see your point, Jun, and it is very nice of you to think of our bonsai colleagues like this.

Sadly, there is little we can do to stop the less scrupulous of our world from pinching ideas. And even if we tried to do something on here, you have to remember that a lot of the guys also have their own websites showing exactly the same items, so how could we determine when an idea was stolen from here or from their own site?

It's a sad fact of modern life that the very devices that open us up to global "markets" are the devices that also open us up to the potential for idea theft.



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Re: copied here for a profit

Post  Guest on Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:31 pm

fiona wrote:I can see your point, Jun, and it is very nice of you to think of our bonsai colleagues like this.

Sadly, there is little we can do to stop the less scrupulous of our world from pinching ideas. And even if we tried to do something on here, you have to remember that a lot of the guys also have their own websites showing exactly the same items, so how could we determine when an idea was stolen from here or from their own site?

It's a sad fact of modern life that the very devices that open us up to global "markets" are the devices that also open us up to the potential for idea theft.




Hi Fiona.

Yup that is a sad fact of modern life.

My point of opening up of this thread/discussion is that for some people to be more aware of giving all the info in creating items which took them so long to perfect. Then some wise guy from another part of the globe would use the idea for a profit without any hesitation. I think it is very much ok to show finish products/items here for other members to appreciate and be inspired at, but save something for themselves. If they wanted to keep the formula, sizes and other specifications but wanted to share them to those they can trust sending a PM is the best option.

This forum got so many followers and most of them are non members and among those people are some who just wanted to get ideas and used it for their own advantage at the expense of the creative thinkers of the forum.

sharing is a good trait but being selfish towards thieves is a better trait.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: copied here for a profit

Post  Dale Cochoy on Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:03 pm

Sad


Last edited by Dale Cochoy on Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:58 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: copied here for a profit

Post  John Quinn on Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:05 pm

If you post it on the web, expect that it will be taken without proper credit given. If you wish to keep something to yourself, e.g. a glaze recipe, don't post it.

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Re: copied here for a profit

Post  AlainK on Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:59 pm

John Quinn wrote:If you post it on the web, expect that it will be taken without proper credit given. If you wish to keep something to yourself, e.g. a glaze recipe, don't post it.

This just should not be.

If that's the law, then the law is bad.

Breaking a law that is bad is a duty: I think we don't have rights, we only have duties, our rights are the duties other people respect for us.

"Law" is what makes "nice" people behave like sheep, but it's good for business, you can sell them guns, a scared sheep is an excellent customer What a Face

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Re: copied here for a profit

Post  John Quinn on Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:16 pm

Alain, I don't think the situation I described is a good one, I would never steal someone's ideas without credit where due. Just stating the obvious.

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Re: copied here for a profit

Post  AlainK on Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:24 pm

John Quinn wrote:Alain, I don't think the situation I described is a good one, I would never steal someone's ideas without credit where due. Just stating the obvious.

I got that right, don't worry Very Happy

Oh my, me and my big mouth Rolling Eyes

I'll change my avatar again so there's no hard feeling about what i say in sheer innocence, cross my heart Cool

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Re: copied here for a profit

Post  Mitch Thomas on Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:43 am



"Law" is what makes "nice" people behave like sheep, but it's good for business, you can sell them guns, a scared sheep is an excellent customer What a Face [/quote] Allain ...... Really, really

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Re: copied here for a profit

Post  AlainK on Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:19 am

Mitch Thomas wrote:
Alain ...... Really, really

Yes, sometimes it's a moral duty to break the law.

I'll tell you a story that I hope won't get me a godwin point:

When I was in my teens, abortion was a crime in France.

A friend of mine had a "friend in his forties", and she got pregnant. She was 16. She could have been to Britain or the Netherlands where the "law" was much advanced, at least for those who had the money to go there.

Some people here took the risk opf challenging the law, and she aborted.

Many years later, I learned that her "friend in his forties" was actually her father who had been abusing her since she was 8.

Sleep, sleep, good citizens, and pray you will never wake up to the real world.

And have a gun close at hand, so law-abiding people can defend themselves against the cracks in the "reality".



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Re: copied here for a profit

Post  Mitch Thomas on Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:28 am

Allain
I am very sorry for your loss. Not to be disrespectful here. All I am saying this is a bonsai fourm and should remain so.

Moderators come on here!

Mitch Thomas

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Re: copied here for a profit

Post  John Quinn on Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:39 am

Sometimes sh*t happens. Just today a coworker was confronted by a meth crazed addict who smashed into his home through a glass door. He held the intruder at gunpoint until police arrived.
Yes, this has strayed far from anything even remotely bonsai related, even for an off topic section.
So, good night all. Sleep tight.

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Re: copied here for a profit

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