What is on your bonsai benches?

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What is your main area of bonsai work based on the trees on your benches? Please select one option.

9% 9% 
[ 11 ]
6% 6% 
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35% 35% 
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21% 21% 
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29% 29% 
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Total Votes : 120

Re: What is on your bonsai benches?

Post  Tony on Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:35 pm

Interesting discussion... my garden has mostly Chuhin size trees... I say trees because I do not class many of my trees as 'Bonsai' until they are mature enough... My garden has over 100 'tree's' in various stages of development... most are 'raw material... with only 11 actual Bonsai (of all sizes)

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Re: What is on your bonsai benches?

Post  JimLewis on Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:51 pm

Norma wrote:You missed a whole category, that being the medium sized bonsai... It would be interesting to see if there are others with this type of collection.

Those -- probably -- are what I mean when I say "large" bonsai. <g>

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What is onyour bonsai benches?

Post  Bob Bailey on Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:41 pm

Hi Fiona
As you know my collection is 100% Mame,not a large collection(20trees),but I like to think the majority of them are of show quality and as Morten said it is possible to change/alter displays by clever use of different stands,different seasons so the displays can appear fresh each time they are exhibited.
To those of you that think Mame are easy,let me assure you they are very unfogiving and mistakes you can get away with on a larger tree can be fatal on a Mame.I know this to my cost!
Bob

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Re: What is on your bonsai benches?

Post  landerloos on Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:25 pm

a litle bit of everything. non show trees

Peter

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Re: What is on your bonsai benches?

Post  dick benbow on Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:33 pm

initially i was drawn to the bigger trees and in my youth had no trouble lugging them around. that said, I find myself drifting more toward shohin as something less stressful to move and take to shows and i'm becoming more impressed with the greater challenge to keep shohin in shape and healthy! I'm working with Will King, my stand
maker on a 3 tree stand for my collection.

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Re: What is on your bonsai benches?

Post  Guest on Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:44 pm

Just to clarify my original intention with my post that kick-started this thread together with other posts.
I did not implied that shohin were or will not be accepted at Noelanders. Not at all. I just made a note that there are shohin enthusiasts who will not go, when shohin does not receives a prize at the exhibition. This makes fever people with shohin as their main interest and passion come along.
My suggestion was always to have a bonsai and shohin-bonsai prize to support these two major groups. Whatever extra and/or special prizes the organizers may want to present is just perfect. Should be perceived as a positive critique. I hope it will be.

As I see it bonsai can be sliced into some categories that are all bonsai (chuhin e.g.).
Shohin-bonsai can be sliced likewise, having a subcategory named mame-bonsai e.g.
What differs these two main groups besides the size (bonsai and shohin-bonsai) is the way of displaying.
Bonsai very much focusing at the individual tree and its beauty, shohin-bonsai always presenting a number of trees displayed together expressing the season.
I find it natural two bring these two groups and ways of displaying to any exhibition, making the best of it.

I have noticed even lately at a bigger exhibition a single shohin-bonsai "picked out of a display" and awarded, neglecting that it should be the overall display that is to be judged. Even today lack of knowledge around shohin displays are very common, and I think that is one of the reasons why shohin-bonsai is still not fully levelled or respected compared with larger bonsai at some exhibitions; just as it is observed from my comfortable armchair.

So, lets show how these benches at home look like :-)
Below a few shots from my collection (and the garden is still in progress, so larger pictures at another time).
There are show ready bonsai and trees on their way. Have not counted what is what.

Regards
Morten













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Re: What is on your bonsai benches?

Post  landerloos on Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:05 pm

Hi Morten,

shohin are awarded at the trophy every year, its only the main focus that changes.
Next year its kifu, so the overall winner will be kifu size, you still can win an award for best shohin, most times its a complete setup that wins not one tree of an setup.

Peter

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Re: What is on your bonsai benches?

Post  Guest on Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:48 pm

landerloos wrote:Hi Morten,

shohin are awarded at the trophy every year, its only the main focus that changes.
Next year its kifu, so the overall winner will be kifu size, you still can win an award for best shohin, most times its a complete setup that wins not one tree of an setup.

Peter

Sorry for being a stickler, but I am still not fully understanding the concept. If I understand you right Peter - sorryyyyyy..... Smile :
Bonsai always get an overall award at Noelanders?
Shohin and Kifu gets an overall award every second year?
Is that correct?

Best regards
Morten

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Re: What is on your bonsai benches?

Post  marcus watts on Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:33 pm

at the end of the day it is important not to create a division within our hobby - at base level our hobby is about various tree species in pots so who cares hom many cm high they are !! - at show level if two totally different criteria exist then two different sets of judges are needed - and two equal prizes. it will never be possible to say a 20cm tree is better than a 100cm tree if both are superb examples- but if only one show exists, with one set of judges the trees' owner must be the ultimate one to decide whether to enter or not.

great discussion tho, the best i have followed since being a member of the site. very encouraging

cheers Marcus

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What is onyour bonsai benches?

Post  Bob Bailey on Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:35 am

Hi
I was lucky enough to exhibit at Noelanders a couple of years ago and please correct me if I am wrong,but don,t the rules of the Exibition state that if your tree/display is accepted you cannot exhibit the same tree/display for two years. If this is the case then if you exhibit a Shohin display in 2012 when there isn,t a Shohin award,then that display would be excluded in 2013 when there is a Shohin award! Not much of an incentive to display Shohin in 2012.
Please correct me if I am wrong,but I do think we need some clarification on this point.
Bob

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Re: What is on your bonsai benches?

Post  bonsai monkey on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:00 am

My benches mainly consist of frustration and lack of talent. Nearly all of my trees are Shohin/Mame with a few Kifu and Chuhin thrown in for good measure. The main reason for this is I have a crushed vertebrae in my lower back so larger trees are a no-no. Like Tony, I have a lot of trees but only 1 or 2 that “I” could call Bonsai (although my son thinks I’m the best Bonsai Artist ever – Stirling’s led a sheltered life!) but I am working towards have a pool of Shohin to work with.

I stupidly set myself some Bonsai goals (all achievable so I’m told) that I hope to achieve although the first one is looking a bit dodgy at the moment!! I think that being selected for a Show like Noelanders is a “prize” in itself (although I’m a long way down the Bonsai food chain) and should be recognised as such although I do understand Morten’s frustration. At most, if not all, Shows in the UK there are separate awards for Shohin Bonsai and this was one thing that I thought was a must for the Celebrating Kent Bonsai 2012 that I’ve been organising and the BSA have been fantastic in it’s support.

Finally, thank you Morten for posting your pictures. It gives me more food for thought when I look out over my benches,
Love, Peace & Bananas,
Simon

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Re: What is on your bonsai benches?

Post  Guest on Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:18 am

marcus watts wrote:at the end of the day it is important not to create a division within our hobby - at base level our hobby is about various tree species in pots so who cares hom many cm high they are !! - at show level if two totally different criteria exist then two different sets of judges are needed - and two equal prizes. it will never be possible to say a 20cm tree is better than a 100cm tree if both are superb examples- but if only one show exists, with one set of judges the trees' owner must be the ultimate one to decide whether to enter or not.

great discussion tho, the best i have followed since being a member of the site. very encouraging

cheers Marcus

I agree totally Marcus. And I do not believe we make any divisions by having two equal parts of an exhibition. We just bring it together.
Two pair of judges is needed in some cases, if you do not have some who know to judge both types of displays/bonsai. That just takes two people depending on how the organizers deal with it.
Most important is to understand the way shohin-bonsai have to be judged (bonsai, we know how to deal with because we have done it much longer). This just demands a person to select the shohin prizes who have a good knowledge of shohin and the way it is to be perceived, as well as - and most important - how it is displayed.

Please understand that I am not frustrated in the sense it could be perceived Simon. But I know people who may not go, because of the lack of an important prize for Shohin. And Bob did ask a question too who needs some enlightenment.

Most of my frustrations are with bonsai not behaving as I want hem to. Yes it is great to see how many exhibitions include shohin with a prize too. It is so in Denmark as well. Therefore my need to push Noelanders a bit too :-)
Keep up the spirit at your bonsai benches Simon. They will get there. I know that. And thanks.

Finally, I see a thread like this one very beneficial for us all, open-minded exploring new ways and knowledge.

Best regards
Morten

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Re: What is on your bonsai benches?

Post  fiona on Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:06 am

morten albek wrote: I see a thread like this one very beneficial for us all, open-minded exploring new ways and knowledge.
I agree. I have been very pleased with the response to the poll and to the general atmosphere of the thread which has at all times remained positive and friendly. There are some questions raised which are as yet unanswered so I have set myself the task of getting a definitive answer today.

The poll has another few days left and already we are over 100 responses. Many thanks to everyone - people who have posted and people who have commented alike.

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Re: What is on your bonsai benches?

Post  fiona on Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:26 pm

Okay, a definitive answer from someone who knows (please note that I am using the term "exhibits" rather than trees so that we cover shohin displays as well:

1. Exhibits are selected for the show and those that have been in the previous 2 years shows are automatically debarred.
(if you look on the information Hans provided over in Announcements you can see he states that items that were at Noelanders XI and XII wont be considered for XIII)

2. The main award of the exhibition is the actual Noelanders Trophy - a very nice sculpture type award. This is given to the exhibit of any category that wins as the Best in Show. There is therefore no reason why a shohin tree or display cannot win this award.

3. Exhibits that are deemed to be of excellent quality but not meriting the best in show are given a Nomination - which is essentially a certificate of merit. There seems to be no restriction on the number of these awarded annually.

4. Each year a Special Prize is awarded for the best exhibit in a certain classification (this year Kifu). The choice of classification is driven by a set rota. It is therefore possible to work out what year your own speciality will be the subject of the special prize and if you want, work round that schedule. It doesn't seem to be a given that shohin is one year and Kifu the next. It is also possible for one exhibit to win both the Special Prize and the Trophy itself.

5. There are no awards for individual classifications, i.e. there is not a best chuhin award or best large bonsai award so it is not the case that shohin is overlooked for an award.


That seems to be it and hopefull that clears up one or two points. Whether we agree with it or not, it's just an extension of the simple fact that the show organisers are the ones that set the conditions, and that is a fact of any show in any art form or competition. Personally I like a small amount of variation from show to show. If the alternative is the rabidly rigid enforcement of arbitrary and at times downright stupid criteria for judging such as we see at flower shows, then I know which I prefer.

And it all justs reinforces my own opinion that if we wish to change it, we need to do so proactively and by working with show organisers. In it to win it, as they say.


btw I still havent got an answer on Morten's question re whether a 3-tree shohin display counts as one exhibit or three. Working on it though.



Last edited by fiona on Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:02 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: What is on your bonsai benches?

Post  landerloos on Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:12 pm

If Iam not mistaken, a 3 piece shohin display equals one exhibitet item, therefore awarded in whole.

Peter


Last edited by landerloos on Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:04 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typos and re aranche sentences)

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Re: What is on your bonsai benches?

Post  fiona on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:24 pm

Bit more information re awards. There are additional awards as follows:

1. Best tree of a BAB club member
2. BCI each year gives one tree or display a 'certificate of merit'.

While there isn't a "limit" on nominations as such, it seems that the norm is between 4 - 6.

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Re: What is on your bonsai benches?

Post  Rob Kempinski on Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:30 am

fiona wrote:Bit more information re awards. There are additional awards as follows:

1. Best tree of a BAB club member
2. BCI each year gives one tree or display a 'certificate of merit'.

While there isn't a "limit" on nominations as such, it seems that the norm is between 4 - 6.

As a quick update, BCI has recently created a bronze medallion for giving as the BCI Award of Excellence. BCI Directors from around the globe will start giving these medallions at shows they attend (with the organizer's permission!) . They were designed by noted sculptor and BCI board member Guillermo Castano and are quite nice.
This will be part of our expanding program to promote excellence in bonsai art around the world.


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Re: What is on your bonsai benches?

Post  Guest on Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:57 am

Thanks Fiona to take care and time to help clarifying the awards at Noelanders. I think it makes it much more visible how it works now. At least I and others maybe, have not been fully aware of the prizes given. This helps a lot.

I also think the results coming in regarding what's on the benches at home is pretty interesting to see. Thanks.

Regards
Morten

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Re: What is on your bonsai benches?

Post  fiona on Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:16 am

I tried to sneak some pictures of my own benches yesterday but the "automatic watering system" had switched on with a vengeance. Not looking much better so far today but you never know - the heatwave may only be a (big black) cloud away.

I'm very pleased to see that Shohin seems to be so widely popular, with only a handful of people saying they don't have any.

There's a couple more days to run, then I'll do as much of an analysis as I can with the data.

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Re: What is on your bonsai benches?

Post  fiona on Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:14 pm

Rob Kempinski wrote: As a quick update, BCI has recently created a bronze medallion for giving as the BCI Award of Excellence. BCI Directors from around the globe will start giving these medallions at shows they attend (with the organizer's permission!) . They were designed by noted sculptor and BCI board member Guillermo Castano and are quite nice.
This will be part of our expanding program to promote excellence in bonsai art around the world.
Is this what's being given at Noelander's, Rob?

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Re: What is on your bonsai benches?

Post  fiona on Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:03 am

Rob? Rob?

Could he be on a plane already?

Watch out, Scotland!

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Re: What is on your bonsai benches?

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