Big tamarisk cuttings

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Big tamarisk cuttings

Post  marcus watts on Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:37 pm

did i read the other day that thick hardwood cuttings of tamarisk can be rooted in water, like a willow tree ?

i could get very weathered tamarisk trunks from 6" to 12" but the roots go down inside drystone walls that must not be damaged so digging is a total non starter.

cheers for any help

marcus watts
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Re: Big tamarisk cuttings

Post  Damienindesert on Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:36 pm

Hey marcus. Tamarisk are easily grown from pretty big cuttings, but it's touch and go if they are too big. It's also a fine line between removing the cutting from water in time and getting it established in substrate. At some mysterious point, the tree decides that it's a good day to drown in all that water Mad

This is going to sound odd, but I've had more success from cuttings in glass jars than opaque containers. I put this down to the fact that with all the light, algae grows like mad in the cutting's water and removed excess nutrient. My theory is that it likely prevents rot to an extent. I found this with my Ficus cuttings as well.

Someone on another discussion had good success by planting tamarisk cuttings directly into an inert substrate, in a small pot, and submerging the pot in a shallow bucket of water. This would prevent messing with young roots early in development as you can simply remove the whole pot and leave the tree undisturbed. It made sense to me but I've never tried it.

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Re: Big tamarisk cuttings

Post  Guest on Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:38 pm

Hi Marcus Watts

Have you thought about layering the trunks....I am used to work with tamarix, and I should think, it would work.

Kind regards Yvonne....I like your avatar...platoon is one of the few movies I like to see more than one time.

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Just tried it

Post  milehigh_7 on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:36 am

I read the same thing about tamarisk the other day. As fortune would have it there was some workers removing one on my way to the store so I got a chunk with about a 6" trunk. I popped it into a 5gal bucket of water. It has been about 3 days. We will see. I will report back with my findings.

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Re: Big tamarisk cuttings

Post  marcus watts on Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:43 am

Hi the only problem with airlayering these trunks is their location - they are in a wall alongside a coastal path used by 100's of walkers. The trunks have hollows, dead wood, live veins etc and i think a big plastic bag will be a bit eye catching - plus someone else will chop them off if they see them - too many bonsaists around these paths these days ! Very Happy

i will look on a more remote section maybe.........

cheers

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Re: Big tamarisk cuttings

Post  my nellie on Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:18 am

milehigh_7 wrote: ... ...I will report back with my findings.
Yes, please!
Thank you!


Edit : Given that these are hard wood cuttings, time for collecting them is while they are completely dormant, isnt' it?


Last edited by my nellie on Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:38 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add text)

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Re: Big tamarisk cuttings

Post  my nellie on Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:01 am

Hello, again!
my nellie wrote:
milehigh_7 wrote: ... ...I will report back with my findings.
Yes, please!
Thank you!
Dear milehigh_7, do you have an update of your trunk?
Yesterday, I have cut two pieces (about 4 and 5.5cm diam.) of branches from a tamarix and have put them into water with some liquid rooting hormone.
It would be useful for me to know your experiment results. How long did you have them put into water? What is the substrate you -hopefully- have potted them into?
Thank you very much!

my nellie
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Re: Big tamarisk cuttings

Post  Just Mike on Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:34 pm

i hate to be the downer in this conversation, and this is only my opinion of course, so take it for what its worth...but, the very first thing a person should learn when it comes to collecting material is the difference between COULD and SHOULD...there are many situations where we see some potentially nice material and think to ourselves "i wonder if that COULD be collected" when actually, out of respect if nothing else, the better question to ask is "SHOULD that be collected?" in my opinion, the most important thing to learn when it comes to collecting is being able to judge with good accuracy survival rate...thats what seperates the "experienced pros" from the rest of us...they have learned to pass on specimens with low chances of survivability and concentrate on material with high chances of survivability...of course, this changes as one gains more experience, but its pretty safe to say that if you are wondering the how's or could's of collecting something, you SHOULD probably be leaving it alone...ive been down that road of sellfishness when i first started...my personal desire for great material unfortunately outweighed any respect i had for the tree...and eventhough it was done with all good intentions in mind, it was still sellfish in the fact that it took those trees many many years to get to where they are, and then i came along with my "i think i can do this and its worth a shot because i NEED this tree" attitude and wiped out all of those years in a matter of hours...it truly is the height of sellfishness, and i wish someone would have posted this message for me in the very beginning...and i hope i would have had the good sense and humility to listen...

just my opinion...

Just Mike
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Re: Big tamarisk cuttings

Post  monte on Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:11 pm

[quote="Damienindesert"]Hey marcus. Tamarisk are easily grown from pretty big cuttings, but it's touch and go if they are too big. It's also a fine line between removing the cutting from water in time and getting it established in substrate. At some mysterious point, the tree decides that it's a good day to drown in all that water Mad

I've been working with huge willow and cottonwood cuttings for erosion control and reclamation purposes for years now. We have found that a small aquarium aerator in the water increases the time a rooted cutting can stay healthy in water by over a month, for the willow and cottonwood anyways. Failing that, changing the water every few days helps too.

mp

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Re: Big tamarisk cuttings

Post  my nellie on Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:50 pm

Hello Just Mike!
Wise words those of yours, indeed! These must be reminded very often, just like you have done. I am sure you echo a lot of people in IBC among them am I.
Nevertheless, may I point out that this conversation regards only cuttings, not collecting trees from their natural environment.
In lots of cases the specific trees are hardly pruned with chain saws.

Hello, Monte!
Do I perceive correctly that the cuttings (no matter how big the diameter is) are staying into water until they emit new hairy roots? Language barrier sometimes leads to misunderstanding....
Thank you!

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Re: Big tamarisk cuttings

Post  monte on Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:17 pm

Hi Nellie, usually our cuttings are soaked for 2 days to 1 week then planted before the roots emerge. We like to plant before roots emerge because the roots are then are fragile and easily broken off. This is often heavy construction industrial type work, planting thousands of cuttings with large earth moving equipment.

Sometimes logistical issues force us to store the cuttings in water for longer, thats where we have found that frequent water changes and aeration can extend the storage time even after roots have grown. With unaerated stagnant water mortality becomes very high after about 8 or 9 days even with willow cuttings.

Remember I'm talking about different tree species here, I have no experience with tamarind, but I think the principle of fresh aerated water would benefit most species.

monte
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Re: Big tamarisk cuttings

Post  Just Mike on Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:36 pm

monte wrote: Hi Nellie, usually our cuttings are soaked for 2 days to 1 week then planted before the roots emerge. We like to plant before roots emerge because the roots are then are fragile and easily broken off. This is often heavy construction industrial type work, planting thousands of cuttings with large earth moving equipment.

Sometimes logistical issues force us to store the cuttings in water for longer, thats where we have found that frequent water changes and aeration can extend the storage time even after roots have grown. With unaerated stagnant water mortality becomes very high after about 8 or 9 days even with willow cuttings.

Remember I'm talking about different tree species here, I have no experience with tamarind, but I think the principle of fresh aerated water would benefit most species.

i thought the OP was talking about some tams that where growing in drystone walls that cant be disturbed, and therefore he cant "dig" them with roots to collect them, so was looking at the possibility of cutting them towards the base and attempting to root them as cuttings...so, in this case, its not about taking cuttings...its about trying to snag an otherwise uncollectable tree by chopping it down and trying to get it to root...maybe i missed something

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Re: Big tamarisk cuttings

Post  my nellie on Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:50 pm

Just Mike wrote: ... ..its about trying to snag an otherwise uncollectable tree by chopping it down and trying to get it to root...maybe i missed something...
You're not missing anything, you are right Mike. Perhaps Mr. M. Watts will reply, too. He is an experienced bonsai grower/artist as seen in his personal gallery space

Thanks for your time, Monte.
monte wrote:Hi Nellie, usually our cuttings are soaked for 2 days to 1 week then planted before the roots emerge. We like to plant before roots emerge because the roots are then are fragile and easily broken off... ... Remember I'm talking about different tree species here, I have no experience with tamarind, but I think the principle of fresh aerated water would benefit most species.
I will go by your path and will plant my cuttings in the next coming days.

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Re: Big tamarisk cuttings

Post  monte on Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:35 pm

my nellie wrote:
Just Mike wrote: ... ..its about trying to snag an otherwise uncollectable tree by chopping it down and trying to get it to root...maybe i missed something...
You're not missing anything, you are right Mike. Perhaps Mr. M. Watts will reply, too. He is an experienced bonsai grower/artist as seen in his personal gallery space

Thanks for your time, Monte.
monte wrote:Hi Nellie, usually our cuttings are soaked for 2 days to 1 week then planted before the roots emerge. We like to plant before roots emerge because the roots are then are fragile and easily broken off... ... Remember I'm talking about different tree species here, I have no experience with tamarind, but I think the principle of fresh aerated water would benefit most species.
I will go by your path and will plant my cuttings in the next coming days.


Hi Mike, how is cutting a tree down and trying to get it to root not taking a cutting? Sounds like a cutting to me, just maybe a large one. As I said I have no experience with tamarind. My original posting was a suggestion to provide a possible solution to Damienindesers comment about cuttings drowning if they are left in water too long.

Not knowing the ability of tamarind to root from large cuttings and not knowing anything about the proposed collecting location I have no comment re: the appropriateness of the OP's original plan.

Hey Nellie what kind and size of cutttings are you talking about?

mp

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Re: Big tamarisk cuttings

Post  my nellie on Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:48 pm

Monte, as I have said above
my nellie wrote:... ...Yesterday, I have cut two pieces (about 4.5 and 5.5cm diam.) of branches from a tamarix and have put them into water with some liquid rooting hormone... ...
Both of them have got nice textured, old looking bark.

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Re: Big tamarisk cuttings

Post  DreadyKGB on Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:51 pm

In my experience I have found that for willow or other cuttings that root easily in water it is best to plant the cutting in a course inorganic medium, I use turface but other products will work, and then submerge the pot completely in water. Similar to what Monte said this leads to less problems with damaging the fine new roots, because you can slowly lower the water level and the cutting has rooted directly into the pot.

Todd

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Re: Big tamarisk cuttings

Post  monte on Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:03 pm

my nellie wrote:Monte, as I have said above
my nellie wrote:... ...Yesterday, I have cut two pieces (about 4.5 and 5.5cm diam.) of branches from a tamarix and have put them into water with some liquid rooting hormone... ...
Both of them have got nice textured, old looking bark.

Thanks Nellie, sorry I missed that earlier. Maybe someone with tamarix experience will have opther advice for you but I think Todds sugestion is a very good one. I would also periodically remove the pot from the water for short periods then resubmerge.

monte
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Re: Big tamarisk cuttings

Post  my nellie on Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:36 pm

Thank you all!
And mostly thank you Marcus for your... hospitality Very Happy
This is your thread!

my nellie
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Re: Big tamarisk cuttings

Post  Just Mike on Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:59 pm

monte wrote:
my nellie wrote:
Just Mike wrote: ... ..its about trying to snag an otherwise uncollectable tree by chopping it down and trying to get it to root...maybe i missed something...
You're not missing anything, you are right Mike. Perhaps Mr. M. Watts will reply, too. He is an experienced bonsai grower/artist as seen in his personal gallery space

Thanks for your time, Monte.
monte wrote:Hi Nellie, usually our cuttings are soaked for 2 days to 1 week then planted before the roots emerge. We like to plant before roots emerge because the roots are then are fragile and easily broken off... ... Remember I'm talking about different tree species here, I have no experience with tamarind, but I think the principle of fresh aerated water would benefit most species.
I will go by your path and will plant my cuttings in the next coming days.


Hi Mike, how is cutting a tree down and trying to get it to root not taking a cutting? Sounds like a cutting to me, just maybe a large one. As I said I have no experience with tamarind. My original posting was a suggestion to provide a possible solution to Damienindesers comment about cuttings drowning if they are left in water too long.

Not knowing the ability of tamarind to root from large cuttings and not knowing anything about the proposed collecting location I have no comment re: the appropriateness of the OP's original plan.

Hey Nellie what kind and size of cutttings are you talking about?

mp

so your definition of a "cutting" is chopping a tree down and trying to get it to root? if so...well...then we have a very different definition of what a cutting is...i mean...if we follow that logic then, all, i dunno, christmas trees for example, are nothing more than really big cuttings that are hard to root?...if the OP is talking about pruning a few branches off and trying to get them to root, while leaving the rest of the tree with enough to survive, then i would call those cuttings...but, from the description, it gave the impression that what was being considered was to basically chop at a very low point, in essence killing the tree unless he was able to get them to root...i have never seen the technique of propagation via cuttings described as "chop at the trunk above the roots and apply rooting hormone"...thats what i would call chopping down a tree and hoping for the best...the whole idea of a "cutting" is that the parent plant survives, hence the word "propagation"...

maybe thee OP can clarify what he meant...

Just Mike
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Re: Big tamarisk cuttings

Post  monte on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:27 am

Hi again Mike.

I guess you'll think I'm crazy but I would actually consider a xmas tree to be a large cutting that is difficult to root. I wouldn't try it though. But some species will root from large sections of trunk. A typical example of what we will do is cut down a 30cm dia. cottonwood close to the ground, buck it into 1m lengths stuff them into the ground and let them grow. I've been involved in planting literally hundreds of thousand of these cuttings. Sometimes we return to harvest again at the same site and the stumps will have coppiced as well as new root suckers and the stand is usually much thicker than before.

I understand the point you're making though, always good to consider many factors before deciding to collect or not. One is will the tree survive? In this case, maybe, although even with willow cuttings known for being very easy to root, I have noticed a lower success rate when the bark gets old and fissured. Will the stump re-sprout? I don't know tamarix but it seems likely. Another aspect is the fact these are by a public pathway and may be adding to peoples enjoyment of this area, if the stumps do re-sprout they won't have the same character even thought the tree still lives.

cheers,
mp

monte
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Re: Big tamarisk cuttings

Post  Just Mike on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:47 am

monte wrote: Hi again Mike.

I guess you'll think I'm crazy but I would actually consider a xmas tree to be a large cutting that is difficult to root. I wouldn't try it though. But some species will root from large sections of trunk. A typical example of what we will do is cut down a 30cm dia. cottonwood close to the ground, buck it into 1m lengths stuff them into the ground and let them grow. I've been involved in planting literally hundreds of thousand of these cuttings. Sometimes we return to harvest again at the same site and the stumps will have coppiced as well as new root suckers and the stand is usually much thicker than before.

I understand the point you're making though, always good to consider many factors before deciding to collect or not. One is will the tree survive? In this case, maybe, although even with willow cuttings known for being very easy to root, I have noticed a lower success rate when the bark gets old and fissured. Will the stump re-sprout? I don't know tamarix but it seems likely. Another aspect is the fact these are by a public pathway and may be adding to peoples enjoyment of this area, if the stumps do re-sprout they won't have the same character even thought the tree still lives.

cheers,
mp

no, i dont think your crazy...you understand what i am saying even if i am doing a horrible job trying to explain it...i guess my point is this...the OP saw some tam's that are probably very nice with a ton of potential...upon further inspection of possibly collecting, it was discoverd to be impossible to collect any root mass due to it growing in a wall which cant be disturbed...so, at this point in time the OP probably did what any of us would and thought to himself "@#$%" because he realized that these werent collectable...but, that nagging feeling lingers in the mind, especially if they are on a path you walk frequently...so...he probably checked a few more times just to come up with the same answer "@#$%, there really isnt anyway to collect these"...then comes the idea "i can airlayer 'em!!" followed shortly by the thought "but then that would draw attention to them, and i dont want someone else to get these little gems, so airlayering is out of the quesiton"...but, sooner or later walking past these little wonderfull beauties of nature over and over again constantly wiping the drool from your chin gets to a person until one day you hit rock bottom and think to yourself "wellllll...i wonder if i could get them to root as cuttings?"...already knowing the answer is "i really shouldnt cut them down" but not being able to rid the mind of the desire for these trees, in a last ditch effort a person throws up a post asking if anyone has had luck with rooting large diameter tams just hoping and searching for someone to say "hell yes!! i do it all the time...just cut 'em down and they all will root and then those pretty little trunks will be yours"...the OP knows he will never get that answer, but its the last effort before letting go...

so...do i think it is a good idea to try to take trunk cuttings from these trees?...i dunno, ask the OP because i promise you he already knows the answer to that.

Just Mike
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Re: Big tamarisk cuttings

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