Lawn fertiliser

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Lawn fertiliser

Post  RichLewis on Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:03 pm

Now, before you laugh at me for suggesting this....


Wilkinsons (a discount chain store in the UK, aka Lowes or Bunnings) is selling an own brand of liquid fertiliser intended for lawns. As far as I can tell, it contains no weedkillers, with NPK 15-3-3.

I like to give my conifers more nitrogen in summer once needles have hardened off, and this fert seems to be relatively dilute with little P and K. What do you think? I would use it along with blood, fish and bone meal and seaweed extract so that the trees are receiving a broader spectrum of nutrients. Just a thought.

Cheers

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Re: Lawn fertiliser

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:26 pm

I think the percentage of nitrogen is a little high in proportion.

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Lawn Fertilizer

Post  bonsaisr on Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:34 pm

There is too much nitrogen. Grass is a leafy, herbaceous, non-blooming plant and can use the extra nitrogen. Bonsai are woody plants with different nutritional requirements. Balanced houseplant fertilizers are recommended. Flowering & fruiting bonsai benefit from bloom booster fertilizers.
There is not much point in using this fertilizer if you have to add to it. Bloodmeal, fish emulsion, and bonemeal are also high in nitrogen. Seaweed extract is more of a tonic and contains a negligible amount of fertilizer. Besides, if you use bonemeal & bloodmeal outdoors, dogs, cats, & carnivorous wildlife are attracted and will wreck your plants.
Iris


Last edited by bonsaisr on Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Add another comment.)

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Re: Lawn fertiliser

Post  RichLewis on Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:41 pm

Thanks for your replies guys! I'll keep them off the lawn juice.

I've always used a 7-7-7 liquid fertiliser in the spring, replacing it with half strength miracle grow in the summer. I've always coupled inorganic ferts with routine dosings of blood,fish, bone meal and seaweed extract; belonging to the school of thought that it's better to use more than one kind of fert but whether this is an old wive's tale I don't know.

Actually never had a problem with animals going after ferts; I use the BFB meal maybe once a month during the growing season but will definitely be more aware of that.

Cheers


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Re: Lawn fertiliser

Post  JimLewis on Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:44 am

A couple of things to remember about fertilizer:

1. You may think they do, but your trees do not care whether it is organic or inorganic. Just so it has NPK -- and TRACE ELEMENTS.

2. With liquid fertilizrs, you are paying . . . for WATER. You may not be paying much, but you get more power for your peso buy purchasing a powdered fertilizer.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Lawn fertiliser

Post  Gentleman G. on Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:25 am

Jim says:

"You may not be paying much, but you get more Power for your Peso buy Purchasing a Powdered fertilizer."

Nice alliteration, Jim Cool


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Re: Lawn fertiliser

Post  tim stubbs on Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:25 am

i used to start off with CHEMPAK SPECIALIST - FORMULA 2 (25 - 15 - 15) , but it was getting harder to find locally and the garden center etc wanted stupid prices , so i finished what i had , i was ordering somethings from Kaizen so i added the "Green Dream Organic Liquid Bonsai Fertilizer" and fed it through the hose sprayer system . As i was doing my trees , i did the whole garden , all the plants grew well but the pines growth was better than ever and the colour has returned and budding has improved , the larches are greener and the growth is stronger but not as coarse as before , the junipers are the same . i only got the 1 litre , that was £5.95 and so far ive only used half and thats done all my trees , the garden , strawberrys even the lawn

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Re: Lawn fertiliser

Post  GerhardGerber on Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:06 am

And every bloody post I read about fertilizer, the more confused I get! Shocked Laughing Laughing

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Re: Lawn fertiliser

Post  wabashene on Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:45 pm

Am using tomato fertilizer from the £1 Store twice a week for everything at the moment - bonsai and allotment. All my trees are looking particularly lush and leafy this season but the tomatoes are rubbish btw.

Its identical chemically (and in looks) to the well know red bottle of tomato Fertilizer and a 5th of the price.

Cheap is good and I never really worry about what's in it.

TimR

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Re: Lawn fertiliser

Post  JimLewis on Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:54 pm

GerhardGerber wrote:And every bloody post I read about fertilizer, the more confused I get!

Why?

Fertilizer is nothing but Nitrogen, Phosphorous, and Potassium, plus trace elements, iron, copper, manganese, etc.

Your trees need them all.
Your trees do not care how you give it to them -- so get the cheapest NPK and trace elements you can find. And apply it to the soil. Do it every ywo weeks and you are done. (Spraying it on the foliage on the pot and on the table is a BIG waste of money -- but it is GREAT for the marketers!!!!!!!!)

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Lawn fertiliser

Post  RichLewis on Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:44 pm

GerhardGerber wrote:And every bloody post I read about fertilizer, the more confused I get! Shocked Laughing Laughing

You wouldn't be the first one!

Its definitely an important topic that perhaps at times can be misunderstood. Sometimes there seems to be as many fertilising regimes as there are bonsai soil mixes, and I think in such situations the KISS principle applies.

For example, I always try to make sure a fert is advertised as containing trace elements, and generally being balanced NPK wise. I do use some solid ferts as well as our wet climate means fertiliser can be leached out of the pot very quickly.


I considered the lawn fertiliser because it was relatively inexpensive, and its interesting to note that while it may have been reletively dilute, the proportion of N was too high in relation to the other major nutrients to be used for bonsai as Billy pointed out.

Like you I'm still learning and like hearing what some of the more experienced people have to say.

Cheers


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Lawn Fertilizer

Post  bonsaisr on Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:49 pm

This is a good time to remind people that the fertilizer article at Evergreengardenworks.com is the classic on the subject.
Iris

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Re: Lawn fertiliser

Post  GerhardGerber on Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:16 pm

Hi Iris, Rich

I've done the reading. or at least as much as I could fit in my head.

I have one problem which I have to admit I can cure, I depend on remembering so making notes has never been my strong point. I know one of the new species I recently got doesn'r tolerate phosphate.....can't remember which one Embarassed

My biggest problem however is the tendancy of people to use brand names, brands that aren't available locally. The internet is a wonderfull source of information, but if I can give you an example of how these things usually go you might understand.
1. Ask a question, let's say "which fertilizer do I use", or simply read some advice given to somebody else.
2. Look on the internet to see (as far as possible) what is in this product.
3. Find time (hmmmm) to go see what's available locally.
4. Compare the local product to the 'foreign' one.
5. Find time to go buy it.

This is a hassle on another scale that I regularly go through.

I appreciate that we can never stop learning, just wish at times I had a straight 5 minutes in which to learn before the next cake of fertilizer hits the fan!

Thanks, and yes I know more reading to do on my part!

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Lawn Fertiliser

Post  steven75 on Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:04 pm

Hi ! I have just joined your discussion. I just found some kind of a new type of lawn fertilizer on organic-water-fertilizer.co.uk . It says that boosts lawn quality in the same time allowing you to use less fertilizers. I am willing to try it, but before that I would like to know if any of you have some experience using it and if yes what are the results ?

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Re: Lawn fertiliser

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:30 pm

steven75 wrote:Hi ! I have just joined your discussion. I just found some kind of a new type of lawn fertilizer on organic-water-fertilizer.co.uk . It says that boosts lawn quality in the same time allowing you to use less fertilizers. I am willing to try it, but before that I would like to know if any of you have some experience using it and if yes what are the results ?

Any fertilizer that makes ANY claims is going to cost you more than the basic stuff. As noted above you are not growing a lawn you are growing a woody plant. So you don't need as much nitrogen (N). I don't know the laws in your place but in the USA all fertilizer must show what is in it, the percentages and the source of these ingredients. And the order is always NPK plus trace. So I buy a 16 - 14 -14 plus trace that is all chemical, nothing organic such as manure.

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Lawn Fertiliser

Post  steven75 on Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:42 pm

I absolutely agree ... but is says on the page that it does not add a single drop of chemical to the lawn, which is absolutely amazing ... if it works.

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Re: Lawn fertiliser

Post  tim stubbs on Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:05 pm

at £275 , i could buy 20 X 2.5 litres of my prefered one and know it works , have you read the bit about needing organic fertilizers or inorganic fertilizers , i dont i will buy it !!

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Re: Lawn fertiliser

Post  coh on Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:18 pm

15-3-3 is a pretty high nitrogen ratio, but I know that many bonsai growers use miracid or equivalent, which is 30-10-10, as part of their summer fertilizing regimen. And I think a lot of fish emulsions are 5-1-1 or similar...lower overall concentration but the same ratio. I think the best approach is to alternate a number of different fertilizers, including some organics, to make sure that all the trace elements are covered.

Chris

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Organic Water Fertilizer

Post  steven75 on Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:09 am

I agree that you can buy that ammount of sure fire fertilizer Smile But the Organic Water Fertilizer is said to work for 10 years (no maintenance) ... 50 liters of your fertilizer for how long will be enough ?!
I am very sceptic about this Organic Water Fertilizer, but I think I'll buy one piece for me to see what it does. If it works for 10 years .. then it will cost me about £27,5 a year (275 / 10). I'm just waaay tooo curious about this gizmo ... and if it works as described, I'll be very happy. I'll tell you when I buy one ... and I will keep you in touch what it's up to.

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Re: Lawn fertiliser

Post  tim stubbs on Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:04 pm

steven75 wrote:I agree that you can buy that ammount of sure fire fertilizer Smile But the Organic Water Fertilizer is said to work for 10 years (no maintenance) ... 50 liters of your fertilizer for how long will be enough ?!
I am very sceptic about this Organic Water Fertilizer, but I think I'll buy one piece for me to see what it does. If it works for 10 years .. then it will cost me about £27,5 a year (275 / 10). I'm just waaay tooo curious about this gizmo ... and if it works as described, I'll be very happy. I'll tell you when I buy one ... and I will keep you in touch what it's up to.

but it still says you need to feed with organic or inorganic fertilizer so add that to it !!

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Re: Lawn fertiliser

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:57 pm

As I read the basically unsupported claims of this product is that it "somehow" changes the water to help organic fertilizers work more efficiently. I suspect it is an aerator that adds air to the water. "In theory" I suppose more air in the water would help bacteria break down organic fertilizer and make it more available to plants. It does not add fertilizer to anything. Personally I think it is a scam.

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Re: Lawn fertiliser

Post  lordy on Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:47 pm

According to the people at the Bonsai and Penjing museum at the National Arboretum, you may want to be a bit wary of chemical ferts due to the distinct possibility that your trees could experience a buildup of salts that are in solution, especially if you mix it yourself.
That being said, I recently had a problem with a bougy in pure Turface that I thought was a pest or disease. Turns out that it simply was not getting enough fertilzer. Granular growing medium lets pretty much everything liquid go right through it, holding precious little in the spaces. So, the recommendation to me was to dilute the fert, and feed often, even micronutrients, which for plants in the ground only need a sparse bit annually. But in a pot with granular soil, use considerably more often because it largely washes through.

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Organic Water Fertilizer

Post  steven75 on Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:22 pm

It also seems to me something to be fishy here. But ... Just placed an order, . The next week it should arrive to me. I'll take two small pieces of lawn and will experiment with it .. and in about 1-2 weeks I think i will see the difference.

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Re: Lawn fertiliser

Post  Oliver Muscio on Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:28 pm

Good luck with your order, but I'm with Billy here--it's a scam. It imparts the "information" of lawn tea to the water, and the water has "memory" and remembers--come on!
Oliver

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Re: Lawn fertiliser

Post  RichLewis on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:18 am

lordy wrote:According to the people at the Bonsai and Penjing museum at the National Arboretum, you may want to be a bit wary of chemical ferts due to the distinct possibility that your trees could experience a buildup of salts that are in solution, especially if you mix it yourself.
That being said, I recently had a problem with a bougy in pure Turface that I thought was a pest or disease. Turns out that it simply was not getting enough fertilzer. Granular growing medium lets pretty much everything liquid go right through it, holding precious little in the spaces. So, the recommendation to me was to dilute the fert, and feed often, even micronutrients, which for plants in the ground only need a sparse bit annually. But in a pot with granular soil, use considerably more often because it largely washes through.

I suppose this is especially true if you live in a wet climate. Also, granulated clays can adsorb nurtrients onto their surfaces, holding on to them for some time, as with activated carbon and other mediums such as zeolite. This is partially to do with their chemical compostition and partially a function of surface area. Hopefully a soil chemist can chime in and give us some more in depth info, but then we could start a whole other topic!

I've heard different schools of thought regarding fert conc. and timing; some recomend fertilising more often at lower concentrations, and some say to fertilise full strength as advertised on the box as per the manufacturer's recommendations. I've always gone with the 'at least once a week' principle. For example if the instructions say 'give 10 grams once every 2 weeks' then I would give 5 grams every week instead, because of my using a free draining medium and because it rains a lot here and my ensuing paranoi about everything being washed out.

Just don't mention ST! We've kept this discussion pretty clean so far.



Last edited by RichLewis on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:28 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Lawn fertiliser

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