Larch Hybrid
+10
marcus watts
treeman
drgonzo
Brett Summers
Jim McIntyre
littleart-fx
Alain Bertrand
AlainK
DougDT
bonsaisr
14 posters
Page 2 of 3
Page 2 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
Re: Larch Hybrid
Sure, there are species that are genetically programmed to grow horizontally - but we're talking about cuttings from plants that normally grow upright. I couldn't find a specific reference discussing this in detail, but web searching reveals numerous mentions of cuttings that initially grow horizontally (for cuttings taken from horizontal branches) but eventually revert back to upright growth. Some of the references were to larch. There was some speculation that environmental conditions (such as amount of light) plays a role. It's a fascinating topic. I guess the bottom line is that cuttings taken from larch branches may eventually revert back to upright growth, but it is not gauranteed.
One reference I found, referring to western larch, stated: "Juvenile cuttings of western larch root easily, but initially exhibit a high degree of plagiotropism, although most plagiotropic stecklings recover
orthotropic growth within 2 years (Edson et al, 1995, 1996)." The abstract for the referenced paper by Edson can be found at http://openagricola.nal.usda.gov/Record/IND20545559
Chris
One reference I found, referring to western larch, stated: "Juvenile cuttings of western larch root easily, but initially exhibit a high degree of plagiotropism, although most plagiotropic stecklings recover
orthotropic growth within 2 years (Edson et al, 1995, 1996)." The abstract for the referenced paper by Edson can be found at http://openagricola.nal.usda.gov/Record/IND20545559
Chris
coh- Member
Re: Larch Hybrid
That is known as a hybrid swarm. As I pointed out previously, as long as the offspring contain genetic material from both parents, regardless of the percentage or generation, they carry the same hybrid name. The Bitterroot larch is a hybrid swarm, but the botanists in Montana didn't know that it could be named. I am in the process of writing a letter to the people involved explaining this. It is mentioned in the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature, but I guess the folks in Montana missed that page.marcus watts wrote:i've looked into some forestry papers and in a test batch from the wild (about 200 trees) between 43% & 52% of the natural seedlings were hybrids when both parent species were found nearby. (they isolated a compound that only occurs in each parent tree and went from there, looking for it individually or in combination). unfortunately these hybrids then can cross polinate with the original, and any other larch species, so the trees growing from wild seedings are rarely able to be 100% identified or even named as the parenting could be of unknown percentages.
Iris
bonsaisr- Member
Larch Hybrid
A plea to Jerry Meislik, the Montana Native Plant Society, and any other interested folks out West.
So I wrote to the US Forest Service out there, and anyone else involved, & explained to them that the Bitterroot larch can and should receive a botanical name and description, as a contribution to botanical records. So far I have not received an answer. Since I am not a resident of Montana, that's all I can do.
The Forest Service is a branch of USDA, part of the federal government. Its job is to further botanical knowledge, not just help agribusinesses. If I lived out there, I would contact my congressman or senator & request that this step be taken.
Congressional Delegation
U. S. Representative
Denny Rehberg
Republican
Washington, DC Office
2448 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC, 20515
202-225-3211
888-232-2626
FAX: 202-225-5687
E-Mail
Senator
Max Baucus
Democrat
Washington, DC Office
511 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC, 20510
202-224-2651
800-332-6106
FAX: 202-224-9412
E-Mail
Senator
Jon Tester
Democrat
Washington, DC Office
724 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC, 20510
202-224-2644
866-554-4403
FAX: 202-224-8594
E-Mail
Rep. Rehberg's, Senator Baucus and Tester's websites also list Montana offices.
Iris
So I wrote to the US Forest Service out there, and anyone else involved, & explained to them that the Bitterroot larch can and should receive a botanical name and description, as a contribution to botanical records. So far I have not received an answer. Since I am not a resident of Montana, that's all I can do.
The Forest Service is a branch of USDA, part of the federal government. Its job is to further botanical knowledge, not just help agribusinesses. If I lived out there, I would contact my congressman or senator & request that this step be taken.
Congressional Delegation
U. S. Representative
Denny Rehberg
Republican
Washington, DC Office
2448 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC, 20515
202-225-3211
888-232-2626
FAX: 202-225-5687
Senator
Max Baucus
Democrat
Washington, DC Office
511 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC, 20510
202-224-2651
800-332-6106
FAX: 202-224-9412
Senator
Jon Tester
Democrat
Washington, DC Office
724 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC, 20510
202-224-2644
866-554-4403
FAX: 202-224-8594
Rep. Rehberg's, Senator Baucus and Tester's websites also list Montana offices.
Iris
Last edited by bonsaisr on Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:58 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : grammar correction)
bonsaisr- Member
Re: Larch Hybrid
coh wrote: web searching reveals numerous mentions of cuttings that initially grow horizontally (for cuttings taken from horizontal branches) but eventually revert back to upright growth. Some of the references were to larch. There was some speculation that environmental conditions (such as amount of light) plays a role. It's a fascinating topic. I guess the bottom line is that cuttings taken from larch branches may eventually revert back to upright growth, but it is not gauranteed.
My larch cuttings are 8 years old and don't show any sign of recovery yet, alas !
Alain Bertrand- Member
Hybrid Larch
If you want your very own Finger Lakes larch, they are being sold on eBay, just called hybrid larch.
Iris
Iris
bonsaisr- Member
Hybrid Larch
I finally got all the information together and started writing my article. I hope someone in the area can take magazine quality photos for me.
The Finger Lakes larch is not being sold on eBay at present.
I finally have my own. One that I bought early last year died. I think they are susceptible to root rot. This one was styled & wired last November, and potted in the spring. The trunk was wired in March and secondary branches in April. You can see the influence of Japanese larch in the foliage. The hybrid is not as rubbery as American larch & holds wiring well. The wires were removed in July.
The hybrid leafs out at about the same time as American larch, but has a longer growing period. I had to keep pinching it about two weeks later than the American.
I forgot to include a scale indicator. The pot is 7 inches long (18 cm).
Iris
The Finger Lakes larch is not being sold on eBay at present.
I finally have my own. One that I bought early last year died. I think they are susceptible to root rot. This one was styled & wired last November, and potted in the spring. The trunk was wired in March and secondary branches in April. You can see the influence of Japanese larch in the foliage. The hybrid is not as rubbery as American larch & holds wiring well. The wires were removed in July.
The hybrid leafs out at about the same time as American larch, but has a longer growing period. I had to keep pinching it about two weeks later than the American.
I forgot to include a scale indicator. The pot is 7 inches long (18 cm).
Iris
bonsaisr- Member
Re: Larch Hybrid
Iris
Congratulations on beginning the final step of our long journey with this tree! Please keep me informed as to your progress and if you may need anything else from me. I know the owner of the property the specimen was found on would love a copy of your article as would I.
Best of luck.
-Jay
Congratulations on beginning the final step of our long journey with this tree! Please keep me informed as to your progress and if you may need anything else from me. I know the owner of the property the specimen was found on would love a copy of your article as would I.
Best of luck.
-Jay
drgonzo- Member
Re: Larch Hybrid
Iris,
I collected and kept some small stunted alpine larch for a number of years. They came from the Rockies up near the Canadian border in Idaho. They transplanted fine and grew OK but like some mountain species I have read about, resented sustained heat, especially when it goes into the evening. They eventually petered out and died. Of course it could have been a myriad of other factors or maybe if they had been more shaded--at the time it was "full sun baby" or nothing at all.
I collected and kept some small stunted alpine larch for a number of years. They came from the Rockies up near the Canadian border in Idaho. They transplanted fine and grew OK but like some mountain species I have read about, resented sustained heat, especially when it goes into the evening. They eventually petered out and died. Of course it could have been a myriad of other factors or maybe if they had been more shaded--at the time it was "full sun baby" or nothing at all.
crust- Member
Hybrid Larch
It may not have been just the heat. Alpine plants brought down to near sea level rarely survive. They cannot tolerate the difference in air density or the amount of UV light. Botanists or collectors who wish to study alpine plants have to grow them in special chambers.
Iris
Iris
bonsaisr- Member
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