Thank you and goodnight

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Thank you and goodnight

Post  Guest on Sun May 22, 2011 2:22 am

I joined this forum a month ago hoping to be helped, help others, and find community among fellow bonsai artists.

what I found was a group of hopeful beginners genuinely seeking advice, others who are obviously masters of the craft that just want to share their joy for bonsai, and unfortunately a select few who believe their word is LAW with regards to how bonsai "should" be done. And shame on the rest of us for suggesting otherwise.

Thank you Billy, rkatzin, Gentleman G. and the others who have helped me, but all in all I'm better off on my own. I've been creating Bonsai for years now and your advice will always be with me.

To those just starting out, do your own research, be your own teachers, join a real world club, don't look for validation on a website forum, because you wont find it. Create trees YOU love. Trust your instincts.

Be well all..
The Man on The Mountain

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Thank you and goodnight

Post  Guest on Sun May 22, 2011 2:40 am

Shame you felt the need to throw in the towel Motm. You didn't even give me a chance to answer you before you left.

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

Post  John Quinn on Sun May 22, 2011 2:42 am

While we do have some strong personalities on the forum, the opinions expressed by this group are the result, in most cases, of years of study and practical experience, and in many cases come from artists with great trees to show for it. Opinions expressed will not always agree with other forum members' ideas, nor will they always agree with the mindset of the less experienced new poster. The forum presents a better and more varied learning opportunity as a result. Personal attacks are not tolerated and will be removed when it is called for, but the variety of opinions is valuable. As new members explore the forum they will become familiar with the personalities involved and learn individual biases. As in any forum, opinions are opinions, and everyone has one or more. One shouldn't feel obliged to accept any comments as absolute and, on the contrary, one should be critical about advice that seems odd. However, if the vast majority of regular members share similar positions on a topic it should probably give one motivation to explore further.

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

Post  RKatzin on Sun May 22, 2011 7:04 am

Advice is just what it is, advice, it's not the gospel, but like the gospel you take some with a grain of salt, others with a spoonful of sugar and some you can take straight up. No matter how you take it, it's up to you to sort it out so it makes sense to you. Come on, it's a bonsai forum! We're talking about trees here and I'm not saying there isn't some technical stuff involved, but it's certainly not rocket science. In my most humble opinion, the IBC is the best forum there is if you're into bonsai, a well run concoction of masters and novices and everyone in between. There are lots of others and if you fine one that serves you better get thee hence post haste. For myself, I'm not into cookie-cutter anything and the variety around here suits me fine, as a matter-o-fact, I am a moderator on another bonsai forum and often recommend the IBC to folks looking to cast their net into some richer waters. Ain't no shame in it, it's about trees, remember, and helping folks get the best advice they can.

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

Post  Ravi Kiran on Sun May 22, 2011 7:58 am

Tis always sad to see someone go Sad Disagree with the reasons though. I have learnt a lot on IBC and had fun along the way. Do agree however that Bonsai is something that you do for YOURSELF and not to please others. You consider and evaluate other points of view and accept what suits you as you discard the rest. That's how its been with me.

MOTM all the best in your bonsai journey whereever you are thumbs up

Ravi

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

Post  dexworks on Sun May 22, 2011 2:50 pm

It's your loss dude, I'm also new to this forum, and yet I feel glad that I became a part of this club... I can't see myself progressing further in my bonsai journey, had I not discovered this club.

Thanks to all the members of IBC for always expressing their honest opinions... and I hope that MOTM will come back in the future.

All the best,

Derick

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

Post  Liserd on Sun May 22, 2011 2:57 pm

Hello Man on the mountain

Like we use to say here in Portugal "Opinions are like shirts, everyone has a different one."
Yes, there are a lot of grumpy old traditionalists AKA fundamentalists who think there is only one way and everithing else is wrong.

But i really don´t care. There will always be trees and pots and if someone else don´t want to call what i do "Bonsai" than call it something else.
I like what i do and i will keep on doing it anyway.

Greetings
Mário

PS : I hope you reconsider your position. You shouldn´t be so affected by someone else opinion! Or shoud i say shirt... Laughing

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

Post  JimLewis on Sun May 22, 2011 4:18 pm

I do hope you come back someday.

When you do, try to remember that not all of us are diplomats, most of us have strong opinions, not all of our opinions are right (or wrong, for that matter), and there is more than one way to skin a cat -- or grow bonsai.

Oh yes . . . people who shoot from the hip usually miss.

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

Post  Gentleman G. on Mon May 23, 2011 12:33 am

Man, I'm sorry you feel that way, MOTM... I understand why you feel the way you do and would ask you to reconsider your stance. Before posting on the forum I lurked around reading posts relevant to my location, and some that weren't. I saw many people give "advice" as if their word is law and didn't think much of it. However, that's because before I found IBC I checked out several other forums and saw much of the same thing... sometimes from some of the same people. I was almost afraid to post anything for fear of the same thing your feeling. However, after reading both of John Naka's books as well as several others what I've gathered is this: the "rules" aren't really rules, more like "guidelines" which is true of most rules. They're there to make things easier on everybody, you don't necessarily have to follow them but they sure do help sometimes. The rules are there because whoever wrote that particular set (i.e. books, forum replies, workshops, etc.) has done what we're trying to do and would like to share how they got the best results. Is this the best way for you to achieve said results??? Maybe not, maybe so... expirement and find out. Research what plants will survive in your area and how they grow, then grow some. The "rules" seem to me to be the fastest, most precise way to getting a very old, very natural looking tree. I appreciate the rules in that aspect and some of my trees will be styled accordingly, I also have quite a few that I'm not following the rules with to see what happens. Of all my trees the ones styled according to the rules look wonderful, on the way to becoming beautiful trees that will probably be entered in exhibitions some day. The trees not styled by the rules are still beautiful to me, but aren't very convincing as really large, wonderful trees. That doesn't mean I'm going to throw out the trees that disobey the rules to make room for more traditional trees. I'll love and nurture them the same, but perhaps instead of enter them in shows, I'll admire them myself or give them away as gifts to people who aren't enveloped in the rules. This is the message most members try to relay, even if they sometimes seem rude or bossy. If you want trees in shows to be critiqued by others, you better follow the rules for the most part. If you want trees to stare at and admire yourself or with some friends, F*#^ the rules. It's okay to break the rules, sometimes even "masters" break rules... that's what makes them "masters", they know when to break the rules. At the workshop I recently took with Sean Smith I broke a major rule, I bent a large branch with some other branches back across the trunk (left branches crossed the trunk to become right branches). Instead of snapping at me or calling me stupid for not following the rules he asked why I did it. I told him I felt there was too much movement on the left of the tree and it needed some balance restored to the right side (only temporary, till I get a proper branch to grow there)... He stood back and gazed at the tree as I waited for him to slap me (or cut the branch off). His reaction was not at all what I expected, he simply said "good eye". I think we can all agree Mr. Smith knows a thing or two about Bonsai, no??? This further validated my view on the "rules" and I hope maybe it'll help you out a bit too.

Hope to see you back here soon, I've enjoyed your posts even if you don't follow rules. I learned from them and that what it's all about. Thank you.

G

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

Post  Lnatural on Mon May 23, 2011 1:26 am

Way to be melodramatic. This is obviously a great forum. Sounds like you just had your feelings hurt by some criticism

-L

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

Post  Bugeye on Mon May 23, 2011 5:35 pm

Wow. Really? It sounds a lot like life in general to me. Very Happy I say just read what you want and dont
read what you disagree with. Easy as that. There a lot of great people on here. But again if you don't
like it change the channel.

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

Post  Mohan on Mon May 23, 2011 6:19 pm

Hi,
You joined the forum about a month ago and you are already leaving it and in a huff. Don’t you think it is a hasty decision? It takes much longer than that to judge anyone or any situation and for that matter anything. If one thinks that he is right and others are wrong, then he should at least try to explain or convince them about his side of the story. Leaving doesn’t solve anything. Contrary opinion and discussion on it, helps in either strengthening your own opinion or change/modify it.
If you think you are right, why are you denying others that option?
Come on, be a sport; forget all this and let us talk bonsai.
Regards,
Mohan.

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

Post  landerloos on Mon May 23, 2011 6:48 pm

If one cant stand the heat, dont join a forum.
I have said this a thousand times, forums are cold ways to communicate, you cant see the face and expressinons of the man/woman on the other side of the screen.
I myself give short answers, some find it offending because it can sound harsh, I doesnt help that one is not from a english speaking country.
I myself have no problems with short comments if they are at there place.

Peter

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

Post  fiona on Mon May 23, 2011 7:08 pm

landerloos wrote: I myself have no problems with short comments if they are at there place.
Good! Wink

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

Post  EdMerc on Mon May 23, 2011 7:15 pm

I, for one, offer a sincere and heartfelt "meh".

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

Post  Guest on Mon May 23, 2011 7:40 pm

landerloos wrote:
I myself give short answers, some find it offending because it can sound harsh, I doesnt help that one is not from a english speaking country.
I myself have no problems with short comments if they are at there place.

Peter

Shame your not aq bit more like that face to face. Talk about go on. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

Post  landerloos on Mon May 23, 2011 7:54 pm

will baddeley wrote:
landerloos wrote:
I myself give short answers, some find it offending because it can sound harsh, I doesnt help that one is not from a english speaking country.
I myself have no problems with short comments if they are at there place.

Peter

Shame your not aq bit more like that face to face. Talk about go on. Rolling Eyes

SHUT UP! Twisted Evil

Peter

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

Post  Jim Doiron on Mon May 23, 2011 8:46 pm

I, for one, offer a sincere and heartfelt "meh".

Perfect Laughing

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

Post  JimLewis on Mon May 23, 2011 9:04 pm

Well . . . I suspect we've just about guaranteed he will never be back. At least not under that moniker.

Of course if he was in a real snit, he's off mumbling in a corner somewhere and hasn't even seen our excellent advice.

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

Post  Loke Emil on Tue May 24, 2011 1:09 am

JimLewis wrote:Well . . . I suspect we've just about guaranteed he will never be back. At least not under that moniker.

Of course if he was in a real snit, he's off mumbling in a corner somewhere and hasn't even seen our excellent advice.

rather on a mountain somewhere...

speaking of which...History is full of men on mountains looking for burning shrubs or some brilliant marbles. Eventually they all returned, some even with great enlightment for the common good - and quite often under a new moniker...hehe

MOTM, if you read this, know that I say this in a friendly voice ;-)

/Loke Emil

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

Post  Harleyrider on Tue May 24, 2011 7:45 pm

Personally, I'm all for doing things your own way. I made that clear back when I first met Tony, Terry, Simon, Lee, et al, and I still remind them of it at every opportunity. After all, rules are made to be broken, and without innovation, progress stops.

However........in order to break the rules effectively, one must first learn them and then master them, and in order to do that effectively, the knowledge and opinions of others is vital, regardless of whether you feel you need or want it.

I say stick with it. That vital little piece of inspiration that kicks your trees onto the next level may be just around the corner!

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

Post  xuan le on Tue May 24, 2011 8:23 pm

Harleyrider wrote:Personally, I'm all for doing things your own way. I made that clear back when I first met Tony, Terry, Simon, Lee, et al, and I still remind them of it at every opportunity. After all, rules are made to be broken, and without innovation, progress stops.

However........in order to break the rules effectively, one must first learn them and then master them, and in order to do that effectively, the knowledge and opinions of others is vital, regardless of whether you feel you need or want it.

I say stick with it. That vital little piece of inspiration that kicks your trees onto the next level may be just around the corner!

Very well said Harleyrider.
Regards
Xuan

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Re: Thank you and goodnight

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