Cocoon on Chinese Elm

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Cocoon on Chinese Elm

Post  AK_Panama on Wed May 18, 2011 4:40 pm

Hello everyone,

I noticed around a month and a half ago that a chinese elm´s leaves were bitten. Upon further inspection I didn´t find anything, but still sprayed it with an organic insecticide. A couple of days later I noticed what looked to be like a cocoon hanging from one of its branches. I decided to leave it be and allow the caterpillar inside to turn into a butterfly.

During the days to come, I noticed that the darned thing would move around (one day it would be in one branch and next morning it would be in a different one). I don´t know if they usually do this.

Yesterday morning however, I noticed that the caterpillar was partly outside of the cocoon from the top, and was munching on a twig. I also didn´t know that caterpillars would come in and out of their cocoon while transforming.

Can anyone confirm any of this information and let me know if it is best I remove this from my tree or let it be? Please find below the (3) pictures I took.

Cocoon Closed


Caterpillar coming out


Here you can see the caterpillar partly outside





AK_Panama
Member


Back to top Go down

Cocoon

Post  bonsaisr on Wed May 18, 2011 8:01 pm

Technically, this is not a cocoon. It is a chrysalis, crisalida in Spanish. Cocoons are spun by moth caterpillars and chrysalises are pasted together by butterfly caterpillars.
Iris

bonsaisr
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Cocoon on Chinese Elm

Post  AK_Panama on Thu May 19, 2011 3:01 pm

Thank you very much bonsasr!

Is it normal that it would come in and out of the chrysalis? Should I leave it or is it best to remove it?

AK_Panama
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Cocoon on Chinese Elm

Post  JimLewis on Thu May 19, 2011 3:09 pm

Remove it. Caterpillars and other critters like them aren't there a ornaments. They're hungry!

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Cocoon on Chinese Elm

Post  AK_Panama on Thu May 19, 2011 3:13 pm

lol Sure thing! Thanks Jim!

AK_Panama
Member


Back to top Go down

Cocoon

Post  bonsaisr on Thu May 19, 2011 3:32 pm

JimLewis wrote:Remove it. Caterpillars and other critters like them aren't there a ornaments. They're hungry!
What if it's the caterpillar or pupa of a very beautiful endangered butterfly? I would move it to a standard tree. Butterflies are rarely a serious pest on ornamental trees, as far as I know.
Iris

bonsaisr
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Cocoon on Chinese Elm

Post  JimLewis on Thu May 19, 2011 3:40 pm

Well, Iris, I did say "remove" (not squish) it.

But there are very damaging caterpllars -- azalea caterpillar, tussock moth caterpillar, various web and army worms, etc.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Cocoon on Chinese Elm

Post  AK_Panama on Thu May 19, 2011 3:54 pm

bonsaisr wrote:
JimLewis wrote:Remove it. Caterpillars and other critters like them aren't there a ornaments. They're hungry!
What if it's the caterpillar or pupa of a very beautiful endangered butterfly? I would move it to a standard tree. Butterflies are rarely a serious pest on ornamental trees, as far as I know.
Iris

I don´t know about beautiful...that caterpillar was pretty ugly!


AK_Panama
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Cocoon on Chinese Elm

Post  bonsaisr on Thu May 19, 2011 6:03 pm

AK_Panama wrote:
I don´t know about beautiful...that caterpillar was pretty ugly!
Remember the Ugly Duckling. Many of our most beautiful butterflies have frightfully hideous caterpillars.

<<azalea caterpillar, tussock moth caterpillar, various web and army worms, etc.>>

We are discussing the chrysalis of an unidentified butterfly. Moths are an entirely different group. As reported, this caterpillar chewed some leaves on a Chinese elm without inflicting serious damage.
If you saw the caterpillar entering & leaving the chrysalis, that probably means it wasn't finished yet. When he is ready, he will seal himself up inside, pupate, & eventually emerge as a butterfly.
Iris

bonsaisr
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Cocoon on Chinese Elm

Post  Guest on Thu May 19, 2011 9:25 pm

"caterpillar into chrysalis, or pupae, and from thence into beauty."

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Cocoon on Chinese Elm

Post  Kinetikx on Fri May 20, 2011 9:00 am

I'm pretty sure what you have there isn't a chrysalis. I've been seeing these things around since I was a kid and get them from time to time on my trees now. Unfortunately I can't remember exactly what it is, but it is some sort of soft bodied insect that creates this camouflaged covering around itself. Much like those "garbage crabs" in the ocean.

Sorry I can't be more definitive than that but at least it gives you some sort of starting point for identification.

Kinetikx
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Cocoon on Chinese Elm

Post  Guest on Fri May 20, 2011 9:11 am

If it is a Moth or Buterfly larvae, then it is past doing any damage to the tree whatsoever. It will emerge from its cocoon and fly away.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Cocoon on Chinese Elm

Post  Kinetikx on Fri May 20, 2011 9:30 am

Seems I was wrong, it is in the butterfly and moth family. It's a bagworm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagworm_moth

Kinetikx
Member


Back to top Go down

Cocoon

Post  bonsaisr on Fri May 20, 2011 10:31 am

Could be, but I think it's too big. Where is Nina?
Iris

bonsaisr
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Cocoon on Chinese Elm

Post  JimLewis on Fri May 20, 2011 5:09 pm

Thank you Kinetikx.

Like you, I "knew" what it was, but couldn't put a name to it. Here's a close mathc from Google Images.



_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Cocoon on Chinese Elm

Post  Guest on Fri May 20, 2011 5:20 pm

JimLewis wrote:Thank you Kinetikx.

Like you, I "knew" what it was, but couldn't put a name to it. Here's a close mathc from Google Images.



Thats nothing like it Jim. We have bagworms over here and they use foliage and bark as camouflage. The cocoon on the Chinese Elm, is a metamorphosis stage and looks completely different.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Cocoon on Chinese Elm

Post  AK_Panama on Fri May 20, 2011 6:03 pm

The good thing about the caterpiller eating my leaves is that it defoliates it for me so I won´t have to do it :p

AK_Panama
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Cocoon on Chinese Elm

Post  JimLewis on Sat May 21, 2011 9:42 am

Well, Will according to my sources there are many hundreds of species of bagworm and all have a different cocoon.

Again, taking into consideration the unreliable source, Wikipedia says there are "about 600 species described." I wouldn't be surprised if there were many more. Florida, where I used to live is filled with them.

And if you insist, here's a picture of the critter poking out of his or her bag as AK describes (again, I credit Google Images):




Both this one and the previous one I posted are quite similar to that posted by AK Panama -- who is, I might add, at least in the New World, where things biological often are quite different from those in the Old World. Critters come in many different forms and varieties.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Cocoon on Chinese Elm

Post  AK_Panama on Tue May 24, 2011 10:06 am

The darned thing ate almost all the leaves!! Only one branch remaining.


The bug is going to be evicted!

AK_Panama
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Cocoon on Chinese Elm

Post  JimLewis on Tue May 24, 2011 7:22 pm

Well, why did you let it. You shoulda done it in long ago.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Cocoon on Chinese Elm

Post  AK_Panama on Wed May 25, 2011 11:59 am

JimLewis wrote:Well, why did you let it. You shoulda done it in long ago.

The scolding is valid! Embarassed

On a positive note, the tree is now budding all over the place. I moved the bug before it ate the new growths.


AK_Panama
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Cocoon on Chinese Elm

Post  JimLewis on Sat May 28, 2011 5:29 pm

Ahhh. A lesson learned. Beetles and caterpillars that chew on leaves (and even snails and slugs) seldom do major or permanent damage to our trees.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Cocoon on Chinese Elm

Post  Sponsored content Today at 11:35 am


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum