what IS bonsai after all??

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what IS bonsai after all??

Post  stavros on Mon May 09, 2011 10:02 pm

A post at bonsaibark blog caught my attention today. There were comments by someone named David on the naturalistic style and on the only way bonsai should be: the way the Japanese masters have been doing it.

http://bonsaibark.com/2011/04/26/nature-picasso-the-hand-of-man/

Any thoughts, comments???


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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  littleart-fx on Mon May 09, 2011 10:33 pm

Hi! all and hi stravos

Right in the middle,...you or they stroke!

And is it?...eneh (dutch)

When ever anyone strike's away as told 1700 years of,...development?
He was told to be a fool!
When ever eny one told us there was a naturalistic style,....none bound....
Who was the fool,...the trainer or the host?

As most of us train bonsai,...from top....naturalistic is the side way and treu!
I got my hands on naturalistic tree's....and yes ease on move on...
euratic kind of thinking!!! as in euro's

And as any would't say......logical......as for proud to be speaker
bound to be,....seeker.......

Anyone who sticks his head out even the tall one's get ,....ahh yea party searched....

There is no style nor image to take...
And yes there is,.....1700 years head start......
Natururalistic vs surrealistic......but the last one is so old.......it can be history...

It is how you comprehend the search of a goal,....and better yet achieve it!

As for starters,...i began my trail deu to eric...
And he is much more achiving and thrive-full as me!

I have several tree's ones natural and being,....blah blah
and some,...in state of becoming natural.....statues ....oops
But as a hobbyist....do i mind going there if i would like to show them?......next entry.... No

I think best tree's ever stay where they are,...did i make a point

nahhh


Last edited by littleart-fx on Mon May 09, 2011 10:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  littleart-fx on Mon May 09, 2011 10:36 pm

i did hear applause,....or was it adele.....catching
sure it was adele!



Last edited by littleart-fx on Mon May 09, 2011 10:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  Orion on Mon May 09, 2011 10:45 pm

Yeah, well it's always the arguement of Japanese exclusivity when it comes to bonsai, and everyone else in the world is back in second or third place. I guess if David takes his arguement to its logical conclusion, then I guess only the archaic styles of bonsai are acceptable. The whole issue never takes into consideration the evolution of bonsai in Japan from decades to generations and beyond; it has never been static in Japan, so why can't the rest of the world learn from them and then practice the art as they see fit?

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  littleart-fx on Mon May 09, 2011 10:58 pm

there you got a point,....a whole lot of obi one...stuff will follow......it never makes us a jedi....
welcome to the dark side hahaha

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  Russell Coker on Tue May 10, 2011 2:19 am

Sweet mother of Jesus, not again?!?!?!?!?!?

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  Tony on Tue May 10, 2011 8:05 am

Russell Coker wrote:Sweet mother of Jesus, not again?!?!?!?!?!?

and so it begins... Russell I am with you on this Rolling Eyes


_________________
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‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  fiona on Tue May 10, 2011 9:52 am

Indeed, but with Machiel's input at least this time it might have been amusing.

But for Stavros' benefit as he is among the relatively newer members, please don't take our comments as in any way derogatory to your post. It's just that we've been down this discussion line on many occasions before either as topics in their own right or as items that have come up in other topics - sometimes with polite responses appearing, sometimes with pretty vehement ones and sometimes with little short of pistols at dawn challenges. It is probably one of those areas where it is best just to agree to disagree.


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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  Guest on Tue May 10, 2011 11:32 am

I agree with Fiona. All art is subjective and we all like different styles for different reasons. Some like to use native trees and try to style so, others like imported trees and the Japanese approach. Whether its poodle bonsai, mallsai, sticks in pots, small purse, expensive material or exhibition level trees, as long as you enjoy your trees then thats just fine. Cool

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  stavros on Tue May 10, 2011 12:16 pm

i appreciate what you guys (and girls) are saying. It's just that i got crossed when i read a comment made at the link i wrote.....otherwise i would not clutter the forum Very Happy Very Happy

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  JimLewis on Tue May 10, 2011 12:18 pm

Russell Coker wrote:Sweet mother of Jesus, not again?!?!?!?!?!?

A-men!

Let's just agree to not go here.

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  Jesse on Tue May 10, 2011 3:28 pm

littleart-fx wrote:Hi! all and hi stravos

Right in the middle,...you or they stroke!

And is it?...eneh (dutch)

When ever anyone strike's away as told 1700 years of,...development?
He was told to be a fool!
When ever eny one told us there was a naturalistic style,....none bound....
Who was the fool,...the trainer or the host?

As most of us train bonsai,...from top....naturalistic is the side way and treu!
I got my hands on naturalistic tree's....and yes ease on move on...
euratic kind of thinking!!! as in euro's

And as any would't say......logical......as for proud to be speaker
bound to be,....seeker.......

Anyone who sticks his head out even the tall one's get ,....ahh yea party searched....

There is no style nor image to take...
And yes there is,.....1700 years head start......
Natururalistic vs surrealistic......but the last one is so old.......it can be history...

It is how you comprehend the search of a goal,....and better yet achieve it!

As for starters,...i began my trail deu to eric...
And he is much more achiving and thrive-full as me!

I have several tree's ones natural and being,....blah blah
and some,...in state of becoming natural.....statues ....oops
But as a hobbyist....do i mind going there if i would like to show them?......next entry.... No

I think best tree's ever stay where they are,...did i make a point

nahhh
I laughed out loud reading this. Can't figure out if you are nuts or a genius...or something else... Thanks for the chuckle!

Jesse
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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  littleart-fx on Wed May 11, 2011 1:06 pm

haha,....what is the meaning of life.....i guess having a good laugh from time to time!!!

grtzz from Holland from a guy with modest English vocabulary ,..... alien

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  Ravi Kiran on Thu May 12, 2011 6:57 am

As Shakespeare would have loved to say.... "To comment or not to comment... that is the question". Rolling Eyes

Holding back fingers rearing to type a flurry of thoughts...... atleast for now.....

Ravi

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  Russell Coker on Thu May 12, 2011 12:37 pm

Ravi Kiran wrote:Holding back fingers rearing to type a flurry of thoughts...... atleast for now.....


THANKS!!!

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  Tony on Thu May 12, 2011 3:01 pm

Ravi Kiran wrote:Holding back fingers rearing to type a flurry of thoughts...... at least for now....
Yes please do us all a favour Sleep

_________________
Tony Tickle.. "that's not your real name is it?"

‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

Visit Tony's Bonsai website

If you Tweet?

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  dick benbow on Thu May 12, 2011 3:20 pm

So many of things japanese were initiated by the chinese. And the japanese felt free to modified them to fit their own sense of what that art form should be. I see an interesting mixture by continents and cultures of what different peoples see in their bonsai, and think it only makes sense that it should be that way. I see this type of question in most of my hobbies.
Mums, Ikebana, Koi... Ultimately I think it tells us
that while we pay our dues to learn the rules from the base that we respect, if an art form is to progress, it must evolve by those who participate and contribute in shaping it.

Ultimately, it's the tree I first look for in the morning, as I enter into my our own garden display
that brings me joy to see it, that defines what this hobby means to me.

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  Mark on Thu May 12, 2011 9:37 pm


For littleart-fx and anyone else seeking answers to such questions as "what is the meaning of life..?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rY1WYhfWTM

Now for the other, lets get back to creating the best Bonsai we can and strive to improve.
Of course this requires study and not just gulping spoon-fed greasy bits.

Mark

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  Loke Emil on Thu May 12, 2011 10:47 pm

1.In respect of the Question itself (what we could be calling the bonsai-Vehicle), a bonsai may be either a (i) Potisign (ii) Actisign or (iii) a Famisign. [after C.S. Peirce: Peirce was experimenting with terminology so these types are perhaps more familiar as Qualisigns, Sinsigns and Legisigns]
2.In respect of the Immediate Object, a bonsai may be either i) Descriptive (ii) Designative or (iii) a Copulant.
3.In respect of the Dynamic Object, a bonsai may be either (i) Abstractive (ii) Concretive or (iii) Collective.
4.In respect of relation between the Bonsai and the Dynamic Object, a bonsai may be either, (i) an Icon (ii) an Index or (iii) a Symbol.
5.In respect of the Immediate Interpretant, a bonsai may be either (i) Ejaculative, (ii) Imperative or (iii) Significative.
6.In respect of the Dynamic Interpretant, a bonsai may be either (i) Sympathetic (ii) Shocking or (iii) Usual.
7.In respect of the relationship between the Bonsai and Dynamic Interpretant, a bonsai may be either (i) Suggestive (ii) Imperative or (iii) Indicative.
8.In respect of the Final Interpretant, a bonsai may be either, (i) Gratiffic (ii) Action Producing or iii) Self-Control Producing.
9.In respect of the relation between the Bonsai and the Final Interpretant, a bonsai may be either a (i) Seme (ii) Pheme or (iii) a Delome.
10.In respect of the relation between the Bonsai, Dynamic Object and Final Interpretant, a bonsai may be either (i) an Assurance of Instinct (ii) an Assurance of Experienceor (iii) an Assurance of Form.

...and that is why a bonsai is just a tree in a nut shell...after all affraid

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  Guest on Fri May 13, 2011 12:03 am

.....HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE again!
Razz Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Laughing

regards,
me Smile

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  Guest on Fri May 13, 2011 1:46 am

I'm quite taken with Peppered Makerel fillets at the moment, although I did have a tin of Sardines with Chile in olive oil the other day. Delicious Very Happy

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  dorothy7774 on Fri May 13, 2011 2:47 am

will baddeley wrote:I'm quite taken with Peppered Makerel fillets at the moment, although I did have a tin of Sardines with Chile in olive oil the other day. Delicious Very Happy

..with green onions and/or mustard dressed beans. Dance

-dorothy

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  stavros on Fri May 13, 2011 5:38 am

..........the thread was not a waste of time or effort after all......it is amusing at the least lol! lol! lol! lol!

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  Ravi Kiran on Fri May 13, 2011 5:46 am

Another old adage... "Though speech is silver... silence is Golden"

Do not disturb - in meditative silence under the golden rays of the sun ....


Another pic my cam captured....


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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

Post  Ravi Kiran on Fri May 13, 2011 6:27 am

"Will baddeley wrote: I'm quite taken with Peppered Makerel fillets at the moment, although I did have a tin of Sardines with Chile in olive oil the other day. Delicious Very Happy

To toss a country (Chile) into a saucepan with some olive oil and saute them with some Sardines .... What a feast..

Typos typos typos....

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Re: what IS bonsai after all??

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