mycorrizal fungi

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mycorrizal fungi

Post  bezmar915neo on Thu May 05, 2011 5:09 pm

I've been doing quite alot of research on this subject and decided that many species of trees simply cannot live or live very healthy without this symbiotic fungi on the roots that I would inoculate my bonsai. There are 2 general types endomycorrizae which live on the inside of roots and ectomycorrizae which live on the outside of roots. The ecto type seems to b more important to conifers than endo. It exponentially increases surface area of roots and hence absorption of nutrients. The fungi get carbohydrates from roots. Fungi r anaerobic so they do not produce sugars. The tree gets a huge web of fungal fillaments to absorb water and everything else like the fine feeder roots would but much more. So.......anyone have any thoughts????????

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Mycorrhizal fungi

Post  JR on Thu May 05, 2011 6:24 pm


I believe that all mycorrhizal sold on the market contain only ectomycorrhizal which, as you say only grow on the root surface.

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Mycorrhiza

Post  bonsaisr on Thu May 05, 2011 7:11 pm

The product sold around here, Micro Plus, is labeled as having both ecto and endomycorrhiza. A few years ago, there were studies published in the nursery trade journals which found that mycorrhizae were beneficial to containerized trees. Some bonsai professionals, such as Marty Schmalenberg, swear by them.
Iris

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Re: mycorrizal fungi

Post  bezmar915neo on Thu May 05, 2011 11:38 pm

The type I purchased is called Bio start and it has about 10 different strains of each endo and ecto as well as some bacteria. Soil in forest is loaded with these fungi. I read an article by a forestry group saying that all the trees in the forest are to some extent connected by the huge fungal colonies living beneath the soil and can share nutrients with other trees where one spot my be deficient in a particular micro nutrient. But make sure if u try any of these products they contain both endo and ecto varieties. I bought one first and it said on the label "will not be effective on maple spruce pine juniper azalea ........which was pretty much ALL of my trees. The food and drug administration is and has recently been doing much research on these fungi to supliment and reduce the need for excessive amounts of artificial fertilizers. Look up their findings. Its remarkable stuff.
Mark

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Re: mycorrizal fungi

Post  Mirek Halatin on Fri May 06, 2011 9:35 am

Actually, there is no mycorhize fungi that cover only surface of root. Differences between ecto and endomycorhize is that ektomyc. reach into intercellular space, while endomyc. reach into cells of primar cortex of roots. So there is no possibility to take out fungi from roots by transplanting (even if you use a streem of water to clean root ball of old soil).

There is no reason to use a commercial products in bonsai art because process of developing new mycelium spends much more time than "critical" 3 or 4 months after transplanting and the same time (rather less time) needs fungi that is already in roots (there is no difference between endo and ecto) to develop itself.

More helpfull could be making a better conditions to fungi growth (like higher and stable air humidity, using mineral soils which are well drained and available to air).

Have a nice day,
Mirek

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Re: mycorrizal fungi

Post  Brett Summers on Fri May 06, 2011 9:52 am

This article by Colin Lewis may be of interest to some. I don't think it was the point of the article and no one really agreed with me but I figured from the article that trees (even pines) in the right conditions had no need for mycorhize.
Reading the article agian I really can't see why no one would take my view (if you believe what Colin is saying off course) What I have found agreeable with experienced horticulturests is that alot of mycorhize indicates growing conditions could be better for the tree.
http://www.bonsaivault.com/Mycorrhizae_POLV.html

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Re: mycorrizal fungi

Post  bezmar915neo on Fri May 06, 2011 11:34 pm

Interesting article. Seems to be no consensus on the subject. Well from reading that article I guess if you inoculate with a product like the one I have used and no fungi grow then your soil is good and if they grow excessively you have not the best soil but the fungus could keep the tree alive long enough to put it in better soil.
Thank you all for your input. Most helpful
mark.

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Re: mycorrizal fungi

Post  bezmar915neo on Sat May 07, 2011 12:00 am

I do agree though that a bonsai pot is far from ideal optimal growing conditions unless you are a professional who can cadre to each trees varying daily needs which most of us are not.

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Re: mycorrizal fungi

Post  John Quinn on Sat May 07, 2011 3:07 am

Mycorrhiza functions to increase availability of water and nutrients, especially phosphorus, to the plant. Growing media with high amounts of phosphorus will actually limit the growth of, and success of innoculation with, Mycorrhiza. In general, the greater the availability of nutrients, the less important is the role of mycorrhizal colonization.

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Re: mycorrizal fungi

Post  JimLewis on Sat May 07, 2011 1:14 pm

John Quinn wrote:Mycorrhiza functions to increase availability of water and nutrients, especially phosphorus, to the plant. Growing media with high amounts of phosphorus will actually limit the growth of, and success of innoculation with, Mycorrhiza. In general, the greater the availability of nutrients, the less important is the role of mycorrhizal colonization.

Glad you said this, John. I've said this for years and no one seems to listen. Mycorrhiza and its "benefits" is just another layer of mystique we seem to assign to fertilization of our trees.

Mycorrhiza will come without spending money on innoculants. If there is a Mycorrhiza for a species, even if you bare root and spray all soil off the roots there is no away you could wash off all of it, and all it takes is one to start a new colony -- IF you need it -- and if you fertilize well and constantly you will not need it. You may not even have many of them -- and your tree will be just as healthy.

Mycorrhiza evolved to help trees nurse the last full measure of nutrients from the poor soil they had the misfortune to germinate in. We may keep our trees in soil that is naturally poor in nutrients, but we then do the work of Mycorrhiza by providing all (and probably more) the nutrients the tree needs.

I rank it right up there with Stuporthrive as one of the less necessary parts of a healthy, well fertilized tree.

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Re: mycorrizal fungi

Post  Randy_Davis on Sat May 07, 2011 1:59 pm

JimLewis wrote:Mycorrhiza will come without spending money on innoculants. If there is a Mycorrhiza for a species, even if you bare root and spray all soil off the roots there is no away you could wash off all of it, and all it takes is one to start a new colony -- IF you need it -- and if you fertilize well and constantly you will not need it. You may not even have many of them -- and your tree will be just as healthy.

I rank it right up there with Stuporthrive as one of the less necessary parts of a healthy, well fertilized tree.

Well said Jim and I couldn't agree with you more. That stuff is in the air and will find it's way to just about anyplace including a pot. For those determined to have it just look for trees of the same speices in the area and get it out of the ground around the roots of the trees.

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Re: mycorrizal fungi

Post  Jim Doiron on Sat May 07, 2011 3:37 pm

I was just thumbing through one of my bonsai books the other day and noted something that suggested taking a scoop full of old soil during transplanting (barring disease of course) to "transplant" some of the mycorrhiza with the tree and also taking a scoop full of soil when collecting. I had not remembered that from reading it the first time but of course, as Jim, Randy and others have stated, that is really unnecessary unless you are bare rooting and sterilizing and if you need a scoop of dirt after collecting a tree I think you're doing it wrong. Smile

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Re: mycorrizal fungi

Post  bezmar915neo on Sat May 07, 2011 6:01 pm

Thank you all for discussing this. I have a much improved understanding of fungal role in its application to bonsai at least. Much appreciated
mark

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Re: mycorrizal fungi

Post  pascal37 on Mon May 09, 2011 4:15 am

...I've wrote a text about Mychorizae, you canfind it on a french forum :
http://www.parlonsbonsai.com/Mieux-comprendre-les-mycorhizes-en.html

or you can use Google tools...to try to translate in English:
http://translate.google.fr/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parlonsbonsai.com%2FMieux-comprendre-les-mycorhizes-en.html&sl=fr&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8
(qercus sp. have ectomychorizae in Europe, in America some local species have VAM)

For ectomycorhizae : you can add some piece of mushrooms in the substrate near roots...or get spore from mushroom found in forest....and once a week, add honey* with water (carbohydrates)....
In summary for the seeding of ectomycorrhizal:
Pinaceae : Suillus and in other statements (for Laccaria: prefer Laccaria bicolor, Hebeloma cylindrosporum ..)
Hardwood: Other generic (Laccaria laccata, Hebeloma crustuliniforme ...) + Suillus in complementary (Suillus luteus prefer) .
(+For all :Rhizopogon, Scleroderma, Pisolithus)

for endo (VAM) : you can put some piece of roots in the new substrate (VAM have spore..near roots)...and add
2 or 3% of charcoal in your substrate....(glomus sp.)


Ectomycorrhizal fungi will find nitrogen in part in litter, but mostly in order of importance, proteins, amino acids and ammonium from ammonification ...
VAM especially absorb nitrogen as nitrate.

*honey:
honey with water one time per week (for mycorhizae,bacteria, and others compounds for tree). For honey, two soup spoon in a liter of water...and mix a glass of this solution with two others liter of water...and apply on the surface of the substrate (after normal watering)



Last edited by pascal37 on Mon May 09, 2011 6:13 am; edited 6 times in total

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Re: mycorrizal fungi

Post  bezmar915neo on Mon May 09, 2011 4:57 am

Well it was a bit roughly translated but I did get some good info. Looks like you've been doing research as well.

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Re: mycorrizal fungi

Post  Ian Young on Mon May 09, 2011 10:13 am

pascal37 wrote:...I've wrote a text about Mychorizae, you canfind it on a french forum :
http://www.parlonsbonsai.com/Mieux-comprendre-les-mycorhizes-en.html

or you can use Google tools...to try to translate in English:
http://translate.google.fr/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parlonsbonsai.com%2FMieux-comprendre-les-mycorhizes-en.html&sl=fr&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8
(qercus sp. have ectomychorizae in Europe, in America some local species have VAM)

For ectomycorhizae : you can add some piece of mushrooms in the substrate near roots...or get spore from mushroom found in forest....and once a week, add honey* with water (carbohydrates)....
In summary for the seeding of ectomycorrhizal:
Pinaceae : Suillus and in other statements (for Laccaria: prefer Laccaria bicolor, Hebeloma cylindrosporum ..)
Hardwood: Other generic (Laccaria laccata, Hebeloma crustuliniforme ...) + Suillus in complementary (Suillus luteus prefer) .
(+For all :Rhizopogon, Scleroderma, Pisolithus)

for endo (VAM) : you can put some piece of roots in the new substrate (VAM have spore..near roots)...and add
2 or 3% of charcoal in your substrate....(glomus sp.)


Ectomycorrhizal fungi will find nitrogen in part in litter, but mostly in order of importance, proteins, amino acids and ammonium from ammonification ...
VAM especially absorb nitrogen as nitrate.

*honey:
honey with water one time per week (for mycorhizae,bacteria, and others compounds for tree). For honey, two soup spoon in a liter of water...and mix a glass of this solution with two others liter of water...and apply on the surface of the substrate (after normal watering)


Wow Pascal, great article, thanks for the link. Loved those pics with the fungi growing at the tree bases as well.

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Re: mycorrizal fungi

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