Scroll Remount

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Scroll Remount

Post  Kakejiku on Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:08 am

I am not soliciting business...this remount of a kiku was done for a customer whose grandfather purchased it in Japan in WWII while stationed there. I removed portions of the Ue and Shita Chuumawashi and Put on a new Ten and Chi...The original Ten and Chi was paper and it was torn badly. The original hassou on the scroll had been removed.

The Ichimonji is the Hoso Ichimonji style which seems to properly date the scroll as this style was in vogue during this era due to scarce resources.

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Re: Scroll Remount

Post  fiona on Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:12 am

Another lovely scroll. Would you explain for us laypersons the terms you use in your post - e.g. ten and chi etc.

Many thanks


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Re: Scroll Remount

Post  Russell Coker on Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:15 am

Kakejiku wrote:I am not soliciting business...

Heck, why not? What do you think 90% of the pot forum is? Artists showing off what they do, and we all benefit. Jonathan, you do something really special that we can all learn from. But Fiona's right, you gotta cut us some slack and quite throwing around those terms like we know what the hell you're talking about. There probably aren't English words for most of it, but "the thingamajig at the top" works just as well.

Ironically, this is the kind of restoration work I was talking about in your other thread. I'll post some pictures tomorrow. I've seen other old scrolls around over the years but have walked past them because of damage that someone like you could probably easily fix, but I didn't know who to go to or where to look.

I hope you do get business from this. I know we're going to be talking soon!

Russell

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Re: Scroll Remount

Post  fiona on Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:00 am

Russell Coker wrote:
Kakejiku wrote:I am not soliciting business...

Heck, why not? What do you think 90% of the pot forum is? Artists showing off what they do, and we all benefit.
Rather than go moderatorially huffy and do rash things like remove posts, I'd be happier settling for a good old fashioned common sense approach here that covers both Kakejiku's (Jonathan's) concern about being seen to solicit business and Russell's point which, let's be honest, does contain more than a grain of truth about who benefits privately from posting on this forum. I think we all recognise that many such as the potters and stone collectors/sellers benefit as indeed do others, whether this be through picking up demo work as an artist or through other avenues. The Admin team is really only concerned where such "selling" is blatant and is, equally blatantly, the posters' only reason for posting on the forum.

This forum remains for me one of the main areas where I gain knowledge from those with expertise. In several of his previous posts Kakejiku has given me (and I'm sure many others) a new insight into another area of bonsai - namely scrolls. I have asked him to explain some terminology knowing that he will do so. This is a good use of the forum. I just wish I had some sort of expertise that I too could give back.

Unless of course you wish to avail yourselves of my English language tuition service. My rates are very reasonable. Very Happy Wink



Last edited by fiona on Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Scroll Remount

Post  Russell Coker on Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:32 pm

Remove my post? Why? What I said, and you agreed, is all true. I'm not knocking anyone, especially our potters. Just the opposite, actually. I love to see their take on the art we all love (or we wouldn't be here), and have bought from several of them that I wouldn't know existed if it weren't for the IBC. And isn't that a big part of why they do what they do? My hope for all of them is that the members of the IBC are keeping them busy buying/making pots, I would imagine that they are very difficult to eat.

As for you, Jonathan, I'd glad you're here showing off what you do. My guess would be that you're not the only one out there, but you are the only one sharing on the IBC so why wouldn't I want to work with you? Like our potters, the work you've shown us speaks for itself. I would understand the raised eyebrows of the mod squad if you were quoting fees for your services, but you're not so what's the harm?

I'm still going to take some pictures of my scroll and post them here. I'd like to be able to use it one day in a display, but it isn't up to snuff right now. My hope is that you can explain to ALL OF US how it can be repaired/restored. Further conversations will obviously be between us. Like I said before, I think we'd all benefit from your expert eye. If the mods don't like it, they can do what they feel they need to do.

Russell

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Re: Scroll Remount

Post  Russell Coker on Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:28 pm

OK, here we go...

I bought this scroll more than 15 years ago at an antique shop. My heart stopped when I saw it. I immediately recognized the subjects as two things I loved in Japan, the bush warbler or nightingale (uguisu) and Amur adonis (fukuju sou). These are the two harbingers of spring where I lived out in the country, and God knows I was glad to see spring! The little warbler singing its heart out in the branches of a flowering apricot isn't easy to forget. It's perfect for an early spring bonsai display.

The art work is fine, and so is the silk mounting around it. You can see that it's tearing at the top, and there is deterioration at the bottom. Jonathan, what can you tell me about it and what would you do to fix it?










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Re: Scroll Remount

Post  GaryWood on Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:35 pm

Good Buy!!
Wood

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Re: Scroll Remount

Post  Russell Coker on Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:04 pm

Thanks Gary.

I don't think I paid much for it. Most people around here selling something like this have no idea what to ask for it, so I'm sure it was fairly cheap.

Forgot to mention - it's 11.25 x 46.5 inches. Nice bonsai size.

R

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Re: Scroll Remount

Post  Guest on Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:13 am

I'm not really into scrolls and the whole Japanese thing but this songbird scroll is excellently rendered. I hope Kakejiku can suggest a way to repair your scroll Russell.


Last edited by will baddeley on Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:30 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Scroll Remount

Post  Russell Coker on Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:13 am

Thanks Will.

I'm hoping that Jonathan has taken the day off to spend with his family and not abandoned us. I'm eager to hear his comments.

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Re: Scroll Remount

Post  Kakejiku on Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:56 pm

The Ichimonji is the brocade cloth which before mounting is called Kinran or Ginran depending on if the Karakusa (arabesque) is made of gold or silver, kin and gin respectively.

Both the scroll that I showed with remount and the Uguisu scroll posted is a Sandan Hyougu or 3 step scroll. This is characterized by the Ichimonji, then the Chuumawashi (the cloth surrounding the artwork and Ichimonji) and the Ten (Heaven) is the upper portion and Chi (Earth) is the lower portion of the scroll.


During World War II era, there was a lack or cloth resources to make scrolls, and so a style of Scroll with very narrow bits of Ichimonji were used. It is now a style not commonly made anymore...The Upper portions Ten, Ue (Upper) chuumawashi and Ue Ichimonji are traditionally longer than the Chi, Shita (Lower) chuumawashi, and Shita Ichimonji due to tradition of the scroll being viewed in a Seza (kneeling) position. This would provide the viewer the focus on the artwork in a proper perspective. Although no longer (typically) viewed in a kneeling position, the tradition of the longer shorter format has prevailed.

The interesting thing about this scroll was that the Upper and Lower portions of the Ichimonji were the same width....

Hope I answered your questions properly and clearly...

Quote for services was sent via PM to respect the rules of the forum...

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Re: Scroll Remount

Post  Russell Coker on Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:20 am

Thanks Jonathan!

I realize this scroll is not a masterpiece by a known artist, but does restoration/replacing components ever diminish the value of a scroll? Yes, I've been watching too much "Antiques Roadshow".

In your PM to me you mentioned the Jikusaki (the things on either end of the bottom round piece). Are they missing from my scroll, or was there something else there? Could you show them here?

Russell

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Re: Scroll Remount

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:54 pm

Did everyone see the article in the latest BCI magazine?

BTW, is anyone going on the Japan BCI trip in November?

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Re: Scroll Remount

Post  Kakejiku on Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:35 am

Russell Coker wrote:Thanks Jonathan!

I realize this scroll is not a masterpiece by a known artist, but does restoration/replacing components ever diminish the value of a scroll? Yes, I've been watching too much "Antiques Roadshow".

In your PM to me you mentioned the Jikusaki (the things on either end of the bottom round piece). Are they missing from my scroll, or was there something else there? Could you show them here?

Russell

First question better directed to someone with more expertise in Art History like Craig Coussins...but if you were to use it in a display do you think it would be more attractive as it stands now or repaired...

Second question, I have sold countless Jikusaki for scrolls that have had them fall off...My sensei taught me to make a very tight fit with the tenon so the jikusaki should not fall off...Sample Jikusaki

Lacquer

Bamboo

Ceramic

Rosewood in Enshu style shape

Jonathan

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Re: Scroll Remount

Post  Russell Coker on Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:08 pm

Thanks Jonathan.

Check your pictures, I don't think they came in correctly.

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Re: Scroll Remount

Post  Kakejiku on Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:24 pm

Pictures came out wrong...sorry. This is a Hida Hon Sakura Stain

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Re: Scroll Remount

Post  Kakejiku on Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:26 pm

Jounuri Saiku Kuro

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Re: Scroll Remount

Post  Kakejiku on Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:28 pm

Shitan Nuri Saiku with Hone (bone)

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Re: Scroll Remount

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