winter protection gone wrong.

View previous topic View next topic Go down

winter protection gone wrong.

Post  Guest on Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:55 am

when i got this tree i was told that it was sitting in good free draining soil throughout. i am very careful with watering as my garden doesn't see the sun for the whole day(til about 4 or 5 this time of year)
i know pines don't like to be constantly wet (i have had a few over the years)
so with the 'knowledge' that my tree was in free draining soil and last year it was very strong i styled it in august, thinking i'll repot spring 2012.
i had a scrape at the soil yesterday and found dead roots, it lost a couple of branches in the styling so i thought it was probably the tree adjusting.
i looked further, more dead roots.
i took it out the pot, loads of roots. all dead.
it wasn't in full good quality soil at all. there was lots in there, but around loads of mountain clay, some peaty soil and a sodden wooden stake.
no matter how careful i had been, i can't stop the rain and the rain was sitting in the pot and killing the roots.(it appears)

i wish i had checked the soil first and not taken someones word for it, i am truely gutted, i don't have many trees and this one is my best one by far, but i'm losing heart with bonsai, last winter i lost a pine it had always had problems and didnt make it through the winter, so i spent much more money than i had on an oak thinking i would get my moneys worth cos i'd have it for life, wrong. it hadn't made it through the winter(at the nursery) and when i got it home i watched its carcass for two months doing nothing. the nursey owner very kindly said he would swap it for a live one, and between us we had a deal where i would make something for him(i'm a joiner/cabinetmaker) and i got this fantastic pine, much more than i would normally be able to afford.

i've repotted it in fully draining soil and i'm about to take off all the wire and then just hope for the best. does anyone have any advice?
i know this should be in pests and diseases but i know whats wrong with it and it's more about how i wish i had not taken someones word and just checked it myself. if i do continue with bonsai i will in future always repot a new tree before doing anything no matter what anyone tells me they have done to it.

this wasn't from a two bit nursery either a very well reputed and knowledgeable chap, which i'd also like to point out this isn't a put down for them.



Last edited by jim r on Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:03 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : stupidity)

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: winter protection gone wrong.

Post  sunip on Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:46 pm

Hi Jim R
I do not know the tree but
do not loose hope, give it some time because such older trees take their time to.
If it is dead or dying shows much later.
Maybe it is a bit early yet to see much root activity, are there no white root tip's at all?
Some warmth in the rootball would help, also some additional root fungus (maybe difficult in your case).
Mist it regularly, but be spars with watering the soil. Add some leaf fertilyzer.
As you know many times with yamadori, original soil is removed in stages
over several repotting's till also the soil in the center of the root ball is changed.
The added soil should be able to suck up the water in the center, otherwise it will rot there.
I have yamadori in a rainy country to and in such a stage where old soil is still there
i cover the surface of the pot so i can regulate how much water the tree gets.
(Be sure it gets enough air in the roots though)
Would be really a shame to loose such a tree.
regards, Sunip Wink

sunip
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: no matter what someone tells you, don't believe them and check for yourself.

Post  Guest on Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:31 pm

Sorry to hear about your problem roots Jim but it looks like youve got to it early enough. The mountain soil or sludge as it more often is, can be a huge problem. You are quite right to say it is best to get the tree in a really open mix and all the mountain soil removed before you set to work on styling. When was this tree styled? If it was more than a year ago, I would leave it wired up as it shouldn't be adding stress after that time. Best wishes for youe fine tree.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: winter protection gone wrong.

Post  Guest on Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:16 pm

sunip, thanks for your wise words, i will not lose hope just had a run of bad luck lately and things like this are salt in a wound!
you're right about the soil being removed in stages and thats why i was annoyed with myself for not doing the last stage before styling, as you can imagine i couldn't wait to get the wire out.
this winter i will do as you do and cover the pot.
will, yes i'm hoping i got to it soon enough, wish i'd looked a lot earlier. i styled it in august, i've taken smaller the gauges of wire off but left the bigger stuff with the tape and raffia on, i thought it would stress it more springing back than staying in place. it has new buds this spring and it looks like it's moving slowly. fingers crossed.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: no matter what someone tells you, don't believe them and check for yourself.

Post  Guest on Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:01 pm

I wouldn't concern yourself with the size of the buds at the moment. The buds on all my Pines are behind this Spring, as are the rest of my trees.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: winter protection gone wrong.

Post  Peter E. on Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:15 pm

The only other advice i would add is not to do any work on this tree for at least two years.
Feed it well and let it have plenty of sun.
If your new soil is free draining it will not hurt to throw water at it during the growing season.
Do not worry about needle size. You need to get this one healthy.

Peter E.
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: winter protection gone wrong.

Post  sunip on Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:17 pm

Hi Jim R
Indeed buds moving is nice,
but says not everything.
On branches that have been blown of the big garden pines and spruces in late autumn buds are also moving.
On my pines bud sizes differ enormous, of course due to what i did with them.
Covering specific pots (those with old soil remaining) for water management i do all year, of course not when it is shiny wether.
Good luck to you.
regards, Sunip;)

sunip
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: winter protection gone wrong.

Post  John Brocklehurst on Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:26 pm

Hi Jim, not sure if this will work on your pine.
Last year a friend of mine had the same problem with a yew.
The tree was removed from its pot, all existing soil washed off and it was potted into a box of sphagnum moss and tied firmly to avoid any movement.
The tree is recovering nicely.
Best of luck
John

John Brocklehurst
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: winter protection gone wrong.

Post  Guest on Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:25 pm

firstly, thankyou for all your advice and encouragement. Very Happy
secondly, i have changed the title of this thread as i had a realisation today, this wasn't to do with mountain soil or what anyone had told me, this was all because of a bad decision.
as mentioned before i lost a pine to the previous winter and this winter i tried to protect four of my five trees next to the house near the back door, fifth tree didn't go there due to it's size.
all four of the trees suffered the same root death, one is doing fine because it was repotted a few weeks earlier (just in time) the rest have signs of life and i have taken necessary action this evening. the tree i didn't 'protect' is doing great.
i haven't bothered with winter protection before and in ten years only had one hiccup which spurred me on to do this foolish move. although slightly protected from the elements my choice of hiding place didn't let my trees dry out enough.
i will be rethinking my strategies for next winter all through summer! not sure whether to leave them out in the open or make a shelter.
i feel like a proper goon and i hope by autumn i still have five trees.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: winter protection gone wrong.

Post  Guest on Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:35 pm

Hello Jim. All my trees stay out all Winter with no cover if it's any help. I reckon you've caught them in time and the present dry spell should help with recovery. Steep learning curve this bonsai lark?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: winter protection gone wrong.

Post  Guest on Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:36 pm

one thing i've learnt is you never stop learning.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: winter protection gone wrong.

Post  Guest on Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:39 pm

i have also always kept my trees out in the open all winter. why did i try something new?! back to the old tried and tested methods next year then.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: winter protection gone wrong.

Post  newzealandteatree on Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:15 am

Jim, there is not much more that I can add to help u. Just to wish u good luck.

Cheers,

CJ
http://newzealandteatreebonsai.blogspot.com/

newzealandteatree
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: winter protection gone wrong.

Post  sunip on Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:47 am

Hi Jim
For learning-
Can you tell us how you protected the trees during winter?
Did you wrap up the whole pot with plastic and left it there all winter?
Because this isolation would be a big difference with say temporary protection against excessive rain or frost.
regards, Sunip Wink

sunip
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: winter protection gone wrong.

Post  Guest on Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:03 am

hi sunip,
i didn't wrap them, i just put them up the side of the house to try and get them out of the wind and frost. i don't think there was enough air circulation in this spot.

nzteatree, good luck is what i need!!

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: winter protection gone wrong.

Post  Sponsored content Today at 12:12 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum