Celtis africana from seed for the South African Jock guy

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Celtis africana from seed for the South African Jock guy

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:27 am

Hello to All,

just in case the chap from South Africa show up again, I am leaving this for him.
From Chiltern Seeds, around 1990, and an easy tree to grow, provided you use a refrigerator in the tropics - ha ha ha.

Buds starting to show. Goes dormant on it's own for 2 months but I still give it the fridge.

About 16 inches tall [ 41 cm ]
Feel to say as you wish.
Khaimraj

Celtis Africana -

Khaimraj Seepersad
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Re: Celtis africana from seed for the South African Jock guy

Post  GeraldHeystek on Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:40 pm

Hey...

That guy from South Africa has been checking in on this website every single day, my tree actually has new leaves, but i don't think this is a good thing at the time as fall is starting. if i have done nothing else at least i know i have helped it to become healthy and start growing again, will it do any damage to the tree if it buds out in fall, it gets closeto freezing in this part of africa in the winter, but rarely any colder, about 3deg-15deg celcius.

Your tree looks very nice indeed, will love to see a picture of it with full foilage...

no need to be sarcastic hey... LOL
Anyways, thanx for the update!!
Laughing

GeraldHeystek
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Re: Celtis africana from seed for the South African Jock guy

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:59 pm

Hello Gerald,

good to see you are still around. I have no idea, of what will happen to your Celtis. The buds may just die and leave you with brown ends going back 2.5 cm or so on the branches. The others may be able to advise.

In another 3 weeks I will send another image.

Stay tuned.
Khaimraj

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Re: Celtis africana from seed for the South African Jock guy

Post  GerhardGerber on Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:45 am

Hi

This is one local tree tragically still missing from my collection.

I've got access to a young tree (about 4m tall) that for practical reasons need to loose the lowest branches.

My plan for next summer is to air layer these branches so I have good stock to start with and the owner gets more of these lovely trees with a head start.

I would appreciate it if somebody could tell me whether an air layer will even work, and if so what's that maximum size branch I can realistically layer? FYI the biggest branch I'm considering is about 6/7cm in diameter, smallest about 1.5cm.

The examples I've seen in South Africa leads me to believe this tree was made to display in the winter, they can be simply stunning all naked!
Funny since the leaves are just as beautiful.

Thanks
Gerhard

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Re: Celtis africana from seed for the South African Jock guy

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:37 am

Gerhard [ and Gerald,]

you know what would help with this tree, photographs of 10 specimens showing the typical shape.
If you guys could contribute to this, it would be great.

My studies on this particular tree, show that cuttings taken of the roots produce a 7.5 cm trunk in one year. So it is possible to have a somewhat balanced tapered tree at 38 cm in under a year. In around 3 more years you can have a well branched tree at the same height and with time you can increase the twigging to a very high standard.
In other words depending on the height of the tree, it is possible to produce a visually balanced bonsai in about 5 years or less.

I have also been working on the American version of this tree, the Celtis o or l.[ I am not sure which one I have,] and have also discovered that like the Zelkova, some of these trees have a higher capacity for fine twigging. Starting off some years ago with 3 specimens, I added on all information to the Celtic africana.
Careful selection of one tree, makes more sense, rather than collecting many trees.

In International Bonsai, there is an image of a Celtis chinensis illustrating that this species [ specie?] of tree has a very high twigging capacity comparable to the Zelkova.

I had a second tree grown from a root, but in my haste to get an even larger trunk, I carelessly planted it in a over dry zone and killed it.

This year I will attempt to grow a few more roots into trees, as I don't like having only one specimen.
Happy growing and training.
Khaimraj

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Re: Celtis africana from seed for the South African Jock guy

Post  -Brent- on Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:06 pm

Nice C.Africana Khaimraj.

Gerald, Celtis Africana grows on any and every pavement across JHB, I presume it's the same in your area. Just learn to spot them and you'll notice them everywhere. The problem you had with your leaves, I believe was due to the non-stop rain we had for three or four weeks recently, and I imagine your tree lived outside permanently at the store, was thus rained out of nutrients, as were all the full-grown celtis around my area.

The budding at this time of year is normal - it's the last flush before winter sets in. I've got 4 C.Africana's, all pre-bonsai and they're all still actively growing. As are most of my other trees.

Gerhard, air-layering is pretty straightforward and I presume any size branch is "air-layerable". I'm currently layering a 10cm diameter trunk, which has already thrown many roots.

Khaimraj, these trees grow in the typical deciduous shape. I might be able to snap a coupla pics on my way home shortly.

Cheers
Brent

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Re: Celtis africana from seed for the South African Jock guy

Post  GerhardGerber on Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:48 pm

Hi All

Brent - Thanks, that's great news.

Khaimraj - I think you have a point regarding the ramification, as mentioned the trees I saw in Cape Town were in winter mode, and thinking back the fine twigs probably made these smallish trees look as good as they do.

FWIW I'll get a pic soon of my intended airlayer victim, C Africana occurs naturally in Namibia but I've never seen one in the wild, much more common in SA as Brent mentioned.

Cheers
Gerhard

PS: Very glad I don't need to fork out cash for the baby "starter bonsai" sticks at a local nursery!

GerhardGerber
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Re: Celtis africana from seed for the South African Jock guy

Post  GeraldHeystek on Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:56 am

Thanks for the advice Stickman,
I am glad to hear that it isn't a life threatening disease that will kill all plants within a mile of it.

I then imagine if this is a problem it would be better to replant the tree in well draining soil, to prevent this happening again, what amount of compost to loose river sand should i use if in any chance i can use this combination.

If i want this tree to show rapid growth will it be better to plant it into a much bigger pot, i don't imagine it will be the best thing to do this time of the year.

please comment.

Regards thumbs up

GeraldHeystek
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Re: Celtis africana from seed for the South African Jock guy

Post  -Brent- on Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:23 pm

Sure, no probs Gerald.

Yes a larger pot will speed growth. Go for wider rather than deeper.

The rain should come to an end soon, so it's not paramount that you repot it now, but doing so might give the tree some time to settle during autumn before winter hits on 1 June, and then it should really take off in spring.

In terms of soil, yes, a freely draining mix would probably suit this tree perfectly, but mine are all in the ground recovering after collection so I can't really comment, but for my other trees a mix of small bark pieces and gravel seems to work well. Others I know do use some compost, but only a small percentage.

-Brent-
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Re: Celtis africana from seed for the South African Jock guy

Post  GeraldHeystek on Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:39 pm

thanks for the advice, i think i will leave it in the current pot for the time being, or until spring at least, where abouts in J'oburg are you, and do you know of any place i can get a thorn tree or two to play with Question

If i may ask, are you a member of a bonsai club, and if so wich one?

GeraldHeystek
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Re: Celtis africana from seed for the South African Jock guy

Post  -Brent- on Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:16 pm

I'll be joining the Eastern Bonsai Society when I have a little more free time, hopefully within this year.
I think somebody posted the details of the club in your previous post.

You could pick up some small trees from the Bonsai Huisie in Krugersdorp which isn't too far from you. They have some incredible trees, as well as plenty starter material.
3 Gerrit Maritz street, Monument. Next to Jonway motorcycles.

-Brent-
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Re: Celtis africana from seed for the South African Jock guy

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