Casuarina (slanting) restyling

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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  dorothy7774 on Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:47 pm

will baddeley wrote:Unfortunately these days, a gift of the gab makes you a master. The ability to entertain a crowd rather than any given talent.

Tataaa Laughing :


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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  Guest on Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:55 pm

Laughing
That did sound like a bitter rant and that's not how it was supposed to come across. Very true though. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  Rob Kempinski on Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:43 pm

It occurred to me that not everyone may know what I mean when I say carving with the grain. Here are some examples of carving I have done with the grain that shows how it can look natural over time. Just a few quick shots during a rainy day.

A Buttonwood which has fairly durable deadwood.


An Australian Pine which has not so durable deadwood but when initially dry, very hard and dense deadwood. This wood was impregnated with a two part resin to help preserve it.


Another Buttonwood. Note how the grain has been accentuated and as it has dried it has shrunk/opened.


Another Buttonwood using the grain.

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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  Guest on Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:41 am

Sorry Rob but I think most members have an understanding of "with the grain". You seem to be claiming this deadwood work as your own work?
Picture 1 is mostly natural with some relatively unrefined carving on the vertical section.
Picture 2 shows similar carving to vertical section in picture 1 but all over.
Picture 3 has minimal intervention other than the accentuation of striations.
Picture 4 is mainly natural with some consistenly similar carving (pic 1 and 2) on the twisted vertical jin.

Sorry to hijack your thread Jun.

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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  Guest on Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:31 am

Its alright Will. It's for the good of the "colony".

....It's ok as long as this thread will be kept open by the Mods. just kidding (Jim and Fiona). I'm planning to keep this thread updated for a long time,,,some sort of progress study for us "novice" people around here.


regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  Rob Kempinski on Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:30 pm

will baddeley wrote:Sorry Rob but I think most members have an understanding of "with the grain". You seem to be claiming this deadwood work as your own work?
Picture 1 is mostly natural with some relatively unrefined carving on the vertical section.
Picture 2 shows similar carving to vertical section in picture 1 but all over.
Picture 3 has minimal intervention other than the accentuation of striations.
Picture 4 is mainly natural with some consistenly similar carving (pic 1 and 2) on the twisted vertical jin.

Sorry to hijack your thread Jun.

Sorry Will, but if you want to discredit everything I say have at it but there is much carving done to the deadwood in all the photos - the point is it was done with the grain and the hand of man is disguised. If you work with what is there you will have much more natural carving. To wit

Photo 1, 11 years ago the grooves were accentuated by deepening them and following the natural grain of the wood using a small Foredom bit, and much was removed from the upper portion to create taper. Not sure what you mean by unrefined -- it looks natural to me, as if broken off. There is no need to add holes and hollows if the deadwood doesn't need it. Also note the time, 11 years ago has given the deadwood time to age and that is the best - no such thing as instant bonsai. BTW this tree was selected as a Top 100 in the world in the JAL competition a few years ago.

The jin in Photo 2 started out as a log. In this case the hollowed and grooves had to be manufactured and it does look the least natural of the photos I posted but still ok to me. As the carving was done less than 2 years ago needs some time to age although the two part resin may impact the aging of the wood. And this is Australian Pine - difficult wood to carve.

Photo 3 was a curved but thick and flat like a board with an awkward branch cut off. Again 10 and half years ago I worked on this shari with the grain and reduced the stubs and carved the deep v penetrations. This is what we should strive for when carviing - a very natural look. I also carved the top curling part to look like a wave breaking emphasizing the undercut and adding stirations, hence that is why I call this the Tsunmai. That you can't tell what was done is proof of the technique.

Photo 4 I focused on removing rotten wood and then accentuating the grain. Since you can't tell what is natural from what is carved, the mission was accomplished.

Here's another buttonwood with extensive carving. Stubs reduced, rotten parts removed to create extensive hollows, grain accentuated, hollow at the top added and the thin sections reinforced with a two part epoxy to help them last. I know looks too natural.


Another Buttonwood, this one was a solid log that I hollowed and carved to add 3D interest. BTW, every branch on this tree was re-grown from adventious buds - again no such thing as instant bonsai.

Sometimes if you are really in tune with the tree, the tree's spirit will appear in your carving.


Here is an Australian Pine that had a long log sticking off of it that was partially hollow. I trimmed the log, carved taper, opened up the hollow, added holes including a drainage hole and let it age. Remember Australian pine deadwood is not that durable and needs treatment.


Not always do you have a yamadori to work with. This is a San Jose Juniper purchased from Home Depot (a large home improvement chain) 18 years ago. The branches were all grown and then made into jins.


And I know you like to carve Elm trees, so here is a Florida Elm (actaully a variety of the American Elm) where I started with a vertical log, and carved a shari into the side. All carving was introduced but looks natural to me as it worked with the grain.


This is an example of what I wouldn't do, This is not my tree and I won't mention in whose collection I photographed it but I don't like the little wiggles at all and the over use of the holes.



Last edited by Rob Kempinski on Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  dick benbow on Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:06 pm

love the face of the forest....makes me think of bonsai in america's, nick lenz might have had an influence. we have several of his trees in the pacific rim collection here in seattle. As I volunteer I often work on his trees, and earlier this spring worked on freshening up the faces on his trees.

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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  Guest on Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:19 pm

Nice carvings there Rob.

Carving and creating deadwood really is a different field of its own. and requires a different form of talent and artistry to come up with a convincing result.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  Guest on Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:21 pm

"If I want to discredit everything you say"....Where did that come from? Are we not allowed to question anymore?
The further pictures you posted all have areas that are obviously carved and your carving is very distinctive and nothing like the deadwood you claim you also carved. Why (as you say) if you can make man made carving look so natural, have you left areas on every tree that look so obviously machine carved? I'd like to see you turn these sections into convicing natural deadwood.

It seems that with every post on other peoples trees, you give a personal critique whether asked for or not but when it comes to your work, you get very defensive.
I don't expect you'll answer this.


Last edited by will baddeley on Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:29 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : spelling)

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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  Guest on Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:34 pm

I guess I was right about the reply then. Shame.

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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  Guest on Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:18 am

As an admirer of truly great great deadwood carving, I am eagerly awaiting a response...

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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  Guest on Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:06 am

wilbur de ley wrote:As an admirer of truly great great deadwood carving, I am eagerly awaiting a response...

From me???

Zzzzz! zzzzzz! I am taking a vacation away from the heat of the kitchen. Have you tried waking up a bear in hibernation? If you do that that bear will be so aggressive.

and Oh! this is an official leave. I asked permission from Fiona.

P.S.

and...Who the H_ _l are you Mr. Wilbur? Why are you so obsessed with deadwood? Probably you can't make a living bonsai that's why you wanted the dead part of the tree so much.hehehe!
See you.

still on leave,
jun Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep


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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  Guest on Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:52 am

hey Mr. Wilbur!

I know who you are. don't worry, it was meant to be a joke. I know how good you are with your skills...

Still I am on leave, hehehe. so, I'll let the other people/ person respond to your queries.

zzz!zzz!,
jun Sleep


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Casuarina (slanting) restyle.

Post  Guest on Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:04 pm

Hello Jun. It might seem like I'm dragging this one out again but I feel there are inconsistencies with Robs claims. The whole point of the forum is to discuss, advise and question the way we create bonsai and if we feel that there is something that doesn't sit right, then we should say so? I may be wrong and if so I will apologise wholeheartedly. I just want some further answers to my questions...Thats all.


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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  Guest on Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:46 pm

wilbur de ley wrote:Hello Jun. It might seem like I'm dragging this one out again but I feel there are inconsistencies with Robs claims. The whole point of the forum is to discuss, advise and question the way we create bonsai and if we feel that there is something that doesn't sit right, then we should say so? I may be wrong and if so I will apologise wholeheartedly. I just want some further answers to my questions...Thats all.


My friend, this is the essence of a forum. I think there is nothing for you to apologize for...

I can't answer for Rob. I think he is gentleman enough to provide the answers you seek out. and you nice folks can settle and iron things out thru this thread, I won't mind.
Remember the time my friend, when I asked you this question via PM (it is not about Rob though) --"Why is it that some (if not all) of the perceived 'masters' of bonsai, Never seems to provide answers to some of the innocent questions addressed to them or their trees posted here in IBC...and it seems that sometimes when this 'masters' and their trees are involved, the discussions seems to be a one way communication- all praise and no constructive criticisms allowed." and if you do cross the line you'll likely to be hang.

this was sent to you as a PM, but I think it is the right time to ask this openly...

I don't expect answers to the question. I am just like you my friend, expressing politely what needs to be addressed.

..sometimes I say "NICE" just to be polite. I was "crucified many times in this forum for expressing what I think is not actually nice. One good example (among many) of these is my open constructive opinion in one of a wall display sometime ago.

..the point my friend is, you are not alone in Saying that some things are ugly even if it is made by a famous bonsai person.

regards,
jun Smile









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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  Russell Coker on Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:50 pm

Hmmm....

As far as I'm concerned, if you post ANYTHING on this forum - no matter who you are, or who you THINK you are - you'd better be prepared for critiques and questions because you're going to get them whether you want them or not. Sadly, you are correct when you say they "Never seems to provide answers to some of the innocent questions addressed to them or their trees posted here in IBC...and it seems that sometimes when this 'masters' and their trees are involved, the discussions seems to be a one way communication- all praise and no constructive criticisms allowed." Some egos just don't allow for that, and it's our loss. Questioning how and why is how we all learn. But those are usually the ones who think they know far more than they really do, but make a lot of noise. It's amazing how many people they can fool for a while, but sooner or later the truth comes out.

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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  hiram on Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:44 am

Hi Jun, very nice Yamadori material. You are very fortunate to have such a tree. The Bonsai Gods were guiding you. I have been looking for something close to this here in Florida, but to no avail. It is so hard to find material with such character. Keep us post it.

Kind regards,

Hiram
Olicata Bonsai

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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  Guest on Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:44 am

Thanks Hiram.

it is raining for days now and I love how the trees look during the wet season. they seems to be very happy, I took another photos:











regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  shannon on Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:29 am

Looking fantastic Jun Very Happy
Can you give me any tips in collecting large Casuarina? We have very poor sandy soil where I'm collecting and I find when I removed them there is little to no root system available (my success rate for collection is 0% for Casuarina).
I have a good knowledge of horticulture and have been practicing bonsai for over 20years but this spices I find impossible to collect!!
I think a few Aussie's have the same trouble, they are native and we should be taking advantage of there abundance.

Thanks Shannon.

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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  hiram on Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:18 am

wow June this tree is Orgasmic. thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up Hopefully I the Bonsai Gods will lead me to one similar.

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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  Guest on Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:01 pm

hiram wrote:wow June this tree is Orgasmic. thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up Hopefully I the Bonsai Gods will lead me to one similar.

...Oh don't worry and have faith.


You better watch out!
You better not cry!
You better not pout!
I'm telling you why!
The bonsai God is coming to town.

He is making a list
and checking it twice.
He's going to find out who is naughty (in the forum) and nice
The bonsai God is coming to town.


....so be good for goodness sake!




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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  Guest on Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:25 pm

shannon wrote:Looking fantastic Jun Very Happy
Can you give me any tips in collecting large Casuarina? We have very poor sandy soil where I'm collecting and I find when I removed them there is little to no root system available (my success rate for collection is 0% for Casuarina).
I have a good knowledge of horticulture and have been practicing bonsai for over 20years but this spices I find impossible to collect!!
I think a few Aussie's have the same trouble, they are native and we should be taking advantage of there abundance.

Thanks Shannon.

Thanks Shannon. my apology for the late reply... I hope you haven't tried digging a tree yet.

I'll be going in the coming days for casuarina digging... I saw some very nice casaurina attached to volcanic rocks some few days ago. I'll make a little photo documentary on the collection and send it to you. , casuarinas are not endangered specie and my group will be collecting less than five trees So we hope to get some local permits. I hope it's worth it. The travel alone by car would take me 10 hours of driving from my place. and about an hour of hiking.

any way, here is some of the major tips...but remember we have a different climate and environment. what works in my country might not work with yours.

I preffered to collect in the offset of the rainy season where the tree won't suffer from dehydration.
Collect as much of roots and soil around the tree. and do not removed the original soil until the tree is thriving well in the new container.
Do not overwater. Put the tree in a shaded place.

To be honest Shannon, this specie is one of the hardest to keep alive after the collection. So don't collect matured trees yet until you learned how to keep one alive otherwise you'll just waste the tree. One of the good thing you could possibly do is cut the tree then let it grow for a season or two before you collect the tree to lessen the stress.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  shannon on Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:55 am

Thank you very much for your advice Jun.
I hope to have some success soon Smile

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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  totomng on Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:32 pm



Thanks Shannon. my apology for the late reply... I hope you haven't tried digging a tree yet.

I'll be going in the coming days for casuarina digging... I saw some very nice casaurina attached to volcanic rocks some few days ago. I'll make a little photo documentary on the collection and send it to you. , casuarinas are not endangered specie and my group will be collecting less than five trees So we hope to get some local permits. I hope it's worth it. The travel alone by car would take me 10 hours of driving from my place. and about an hour of hiking.

any way, here is some of the major tips...but remember we have a different climate and environment. what works in my country might not work with yours.

I preffered to collect in the offset of the rainy season where the tree won't suffer from dehydration.
Collect as much of roots and soil around the tree. and do not removed the original soil until the tree is thriving well in the new container.
Do not overwater. Put the tree in a shaded place.

To be honest Shannon, this specie is one of the hardest to keep alive after the collection. So don't collect matured trees yet until you learned how to keep one alive otherwise you'll just waste the tree. One of the good thing you could possibly do is cut the tree then let it grow for a season or two before you collect the tree to lessen the stress.

regards,
jun Smile
[/quote] hello jun!!...is it possible to air layer a casuarina branch 6 inches in diameter this season? how long should it take before the branch can be cut and harvested.. thanks in advace.... Very Happy

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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

Post  Justin Hervey on Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:28 am

Looking good Jun... sometimes it's a curse to have too many options.
It would also make a great (semi)cascade:


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Re: Casuarina (slanting) restyling

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