Ginkgo weirdness

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  Russell Coker on Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:37 pm

Hi Matt.

Of that group of knobby roots that I cut from under my tree's base 2 of them sprouted. Where yours roots like mine or chichi from the trunk? Oh, and I did plant mine just like they had been growing - with the cut side facing up.

Thanks for the input, keep us posted.

R

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  GerhardGerber on Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:28 pm

Hi All

This thread made my day, I haven't been as excited about a new species (for) in a while, but my Ginkgo is a stick!

How many years growth am I looking at for something close to the trees pictured here? (assuming I do everything right)

I'm checking every morning and afternoon for a sign of the buds swelling, can't wait for signs of life so I can get my pride&joy stick out of the nursery bag! Laughing Laughing

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  gregb on Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:51 am

Mine was purchased as a small cutting from a nursery in 1991. It is now 2011, 20 years later. I am its second owner, having purchased it last winter. I was very fortunate to have the opportunity to purchase this tree for my first ginkgo. It looks great with a full set of leaves on it and I'm looking forward to its fall color...I'm also thinking about a new pot for it too scratch

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  Russell Coker on Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:23 pm

Gerhard, be prepared for a long, slow ride. If you go back through this thread you'll see that most of these trees started small and were grown into their present forms. This seems to work better than cutting back something large and regrowing, like you would a maple or an elm. One thing I've noticed about ginkgos is that you will do a lot less training as the tree develops as compared to other deciduous material. They set the pace and the form and you just follow along. Light trimming keeps the shape and eliminates branches that become heavy, and wire is usually just to reposition branches as needed. Any radical wiring and styling usually isn't needed.

Greg, why change the pot? I really like what it's in, has it gotten too big for it?

R

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  jersanct on Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:01 pm

Gentlemen, thanks for posting your trees. I finally gave up on a Gingko I had had for 5-7 years and sold it this spring because I couldn't figure out how to get any branching out of it, and nobody seemed to have any advice. How did you manage to encourage some branching on your trees? Thanks in advance for your responses.

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  GerhardGerber on Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:27 pm

Thanks everybody

Quite frankly, I've got a stick, a blue pot, and in about 8 months I'll have beautiful yellow leaves hanging from a stick in a blue pot - reckon it'll be fantastic! Laughing Laughing

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  Kev Bailey on Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:36 pm

My experience with Ginkgo's is also that they are slower to develop when planted out, but I think that this might change after a good few years. I've seen monster Ginkgo's that have developed over many decades in the ground. I think that this is a species that does really take a long time.

They are an intriguing and really lovely tree though and will repay the effort.

Anyone who doesn't know about them should take a look at www.xs4all.nl/~kwanten/bonsai.htm - but unhappily the page is not loading at the moment. Try googling it and looking at cached pages.

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“It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change.” - Charles Darwin.

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  Jeremy on Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:22 am

Hi Kev,
This worked.

Hope this helped.

Jeremy
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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  Russell Coker on Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:43 am

Jeremy wrote:Hi Kev,
This worked.

Hope this helped.

Well, it sorta worked for me. After several tries it almost opened. I'll keep trying.

Anyway, jersanct, I feel your pain. One thing you have to understand is that YOU AIN'T IN CHARGE. Ginkgos to what they want when they want to do it. You're just there for moral support. Honestly, I hope Oliver will chime in, I think he could best answer your questions. Did you start with an older tree cut back, or from young stock growing it out????

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  Oliver Muscio on Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:40 am

Russell,
I don't want to suggest that I am any kind of expert on ginkgos or anything else, but here is my experience. I had a small weak ginkgo that the nurseryman basically gave free along with another purchase. I planted it (in the ground, if I remember correctly) for a couple of years, and then dug it up for potting. When I dug it up, I found it had a rather longish tuberous root, as I recounted in my posting earlier (above). This root had fine roots all along it, so I cut it in half and potted the upper half (the tree half). The bottom half I replanted in the ground. It sprouted new shoots, and eventually I selected just one and let it grow. After a series of trunk chops over a period of several years, it had grown a new trunk that was much bigger than that of the upper half that was initially potted. The two trees are shown in my earlier post. I neglected to include an object in the photos to indicate scale, but the trees are of similar hight. The heavier-trunked tree is the one grown in the ground from the bottom half of the root. The more slender tree is the part that was potted first, and has never really developed much more girth since it was potted.
Oliver

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  gregb on Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:58 am


Greg, why change the pot? I really like what it's in, has it gotten too big for it?

R[/quote]

I agree with you that it's in a nice pot, believe me, I'm keepin' that pot pig But you hit the nail on the head; the splaying technique really worked well and the tree now seems too large for the pot it's currently in. Plus, I'm noticing the leaves when mature are yellow-green and I'm thinking about an unglazed red-violet color clay body that would be a complimentary harmony w/the yellow-green leaves. Plus I think red-violet would be pretty nice w/the fall color of yellow too. So, the rectangular form the current pot has is good, just a bit wider. I'll have to see how it looks w/out leaves this winter. It does need re-potting no matter what and I thought a change would be good Wink

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  Gary Swiech on Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:24 pm

I've never seen those tuberous growths on my Ginkgo roots, very interesting and cool.

Here's a few images of my Chi-Chi Ginkgo, I purchased from Brussel Martin back in 1989 as a seedling and I grew them in
the ground for 4 years before potting them. The second image is Ginkgo "Autumn Gold" which I started as a 2 yr. graft in 1976,




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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  Russell Coker on Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:58 pm

Hi Gary.

Thanks for sharing. What has been your experience with growing in the ground vs in a pot? The second tree was ground grown too? Did you do the grafting, and where is the union? Very well done.

R

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  Gary Swiech on Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:42 pm

The Chi-Chi Ginkgo didn't put out much growth in the ground after 4 years, so I potted them up. They grow better in a pot with constant water. Ginkgoes are very slow growing
until they reach about 20 years old and then is seems like they grow like crazy, especially the top apex.

The Autumn Gold ginkgoes I purchased from a guy I knew in Chicago who ran a bonsai shop as 2 yr. grafts. I bought 2 and put one in a container and the other in the ground. They came from Monrovia nursery in California. They were in one gallon cans.

As for the grafts. they disappeared long ago.


Last edited by Gary Swiech on Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  Gary Swiech on Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:03 pm

Bill Valvanis told me it takes 50 yrs. to grow a good Ginkgo bonsai and I believe him.

The Autumn Gold I grew from a graft is 35 years old and it has at least another 20 yrs. to build it's ramification. Then It will look very good.

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  Russell Coker on Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:37 am

Gary Swiech wrote:Bill Valvanis told me it takes 50 yrs. to grow a good Ginkgo bonsai and I believe him.

HMMMM. Not sure I do, but I don't want to argue numbers. It's a slow go for sure, but I guess it depends on what you start with. I'd say you're on your way, and they deserve better pots.

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  William N. Valavanis on Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:02 pm

Gary, I don't remember saying that it requires 50 years to develop a ginkgo bonsai.

The time required depends entirely on what you begin with. Most of the ginkgo bonsai in Japan have been trained from air layers, not seedlings. A long time is not required if something substantial is begun with.

Also the time required to develop a ginkgo bonsai depends on your level of refinement. A beginner might consider a young nursery grown seedling bonsai developed, while a more experienced artist might require a decade or more for a bonsai to reach the desired level of refinement.

Bill

There are two ginkgo bonsai displayed this weekend in the 31st Nippon Bonsai Taikan-ten Exhibition (Grandview Bonsai Exhibition) held in Kyoto, Japan.


Ginkgo bonsai probably trained from an air layer about 10 to 15 years.



This ginkgo bonsai is much taller than the first specimen without foliage and probably has been trained for 15 to 20 years. By the way this specimen was brilliant on Thursday when the exhibition was being set up and judged. Yesterday and today the leaves are beginning to fade and shrivel. Probably, tomorrow, Sunday, the leave will be totally removed to display the fine twigs.

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  Russell Coker on Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:09 pm



Hey Bill. Thanks for adding those beauties!

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  bumblebee on Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:03 pm

I have several Ginko sticks in pots. I'm wondering now if putting them together as a clump
in one pot would be the way to go. What do y'all think?

Libby

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  Gary Swiech on Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:31 pm

The time required depends entirely on what you begin with.

Bill, I believe you mentioned it here a year or so ago, in regards to my Autumn Gold Ginkgo. I think your statement was referring to Ginkgo from seedlings or grafts and
not from air-layering.

Of course those propagated from air-layering will develop much faster once established.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Russell,
Do you have any particular pots you they would look better in. The Chi-Chi is no longer in that tall pot. It's in a blue Chinese pot.


Last edited by Gary Swiech on Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : reply to Russell)

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  Russell Coker on Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:37 pm

Gary Swiech wrote: Do you have any particular pots you they would look better in. The Chi-Chi is no longer in that tall pot. It's in a blue Chinese pot.

That's actually the one I meant. I think the 'autumn gold' looks nice, and I'm glad the chi chi is in a different pot. I like them in shallow pots, but that can be difficult with those funky roots.

Here's a little forest I just put together with some young chi chis. Some are already getting knobby bases and I had to cut some of those strange roots off of others. I need to do a little arranging and straightening....



Libby, I almost did what you're suggesting with these trees but I already have a clump so I figured I'd go with a forest. What you want to do is feasible, but I'd only do it if they all came from the same place. There can be a lot of variation, that's not so bad with a forest of individual trees but may look odd in a connected clump.

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  HowardUSA on Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:21 pm

I have found this series of posts on the ginkgo most enjoyable. Thanks Randy for the link to the interesting article on ginkgo trees and lingnotubers. My oldest tree has "root" lingnotubers and one underground chi chi (the article also calls them lingnotubers). I live in zone 10 South Florida and am very fond of the ginkgo tree. The nearest ginkgo living in the ground near me is in Orlando Florida at Disney World (zone 9). I have four ginkgo trees in pots of various sizes that I put in a cooler for 100hrs of chilling every winter. The choice of 100hrs of chilling is the amount of chilling hrs that the Orlando area has each winter. My trees are in partial shade here in South Florida (the leaves sunburn here in full sun) and they have done very well. The leaves shrivel and turn grayish in the fall but not all of them drop. Before I put them in the cooler I defoliate them and spray them for critters. The ginkgo trees (here in South Florida) are one of the last of my many trees to put on new leaves in late spring/early summer. Even though I have to chill my ginkgo trees and they don't do a color show in the winter here, I still think they are beautiful and worth the effort.


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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  Norma on Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:51 pm

Hi Howard,

I was surprised to read you sprayed for critters in the fall...in Ginkgo lore, they are neither attacked by insects or disease. In the years I've grown ginkgo the only problem I've had was burns from the sun on some leaves after watering or rain. Has anyone else had critter problems ?

I feel the same way about my ginkgo...they are worth the effort and I love the idea of growing a "living fossil".

Best regards,
Norma

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  Russell Coker on Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:42 am

Norma wrote:Hi Howard,

I was surprised to read you sprayed for critters in the fall...in Ginkgo lore, they are neither attacked by insects or disease. In the years I've grown ginkgo the only problem I've had was burns from the sun on some leaves after watering or rain. Has anyone else had critter problems ?

I feel the same way about my ginkgo...they are worth the effort and I love the idea of growing a "living fossil".

Best regards,
Norma

Hi Howard, thanks for your contribution. Interesting to hear the someone in the tropical zone is willing to make so much of an effort. Like Norma, I'm curious - what are you spraying for? Or is it just a precaution?

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

Post  HowardUSA on Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:15 am

Norma,

My ginkgo trees get non flying little white specks about the 1/3 the size of a white fly. They only appear only at the base of branches at the bud area. The same little critters form on the trunk and branches of my grewia occidentalis in much larger numbers. A good dose of malathion kills the critters on both trees at least for a month or two. Often I just use a cotton swab and apply the diluted malathion directly to the little guys. My local bonsai nurseryman says he gets them on his grewia occidentalis also and he uses malathion to control them. Unfortunately he doesn't grow ginkgo trees.

I love to watch the unusual growth habits of ginkgo. My oldest tree 12-15 yrs ?(a veritable baby) has developed several suckers arising from lignotubers and has filled out nicely. Presently growing one large leaf ginkgo, one chichi, and a green pagoda.

Howard

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Re: Ginkgo weirdness

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