Japanese White Pine

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Japanese White Pine

Post  sunip on Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:16 am

Hello, i am planning to remove the apex of an older JWP in the process of redesigning.
There is already a new apex, but looking at the the apex that i will remove, i have a vision of a beautiful shohin.
The question is, should i forget about an air layer, i don't find anything in the books about air layering a JWP
and on the internet fora you only read that it is impossible?

regards, Sunip;)

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Re: Japanese White Pine

Post  Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:23 am

I do not think it is possible to air-layer any Pine. But you can graft new roots on from smaller plants, and that will do the same job. It is described in another thread here. Cant regognize which one right now, but the technique is described here: www.shohin-europe.com/STARTPAGE/ARTICLES-rootgrafting.html

Regards
Morten

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Japanese White Pine

Post  sunip on Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:01 am

Thanks Morten for the reply.
I considered this idea, because i remembered you posted this earlier.
But i think it will be a bit to much fuss for the tree at that spot.( all those little pots)
Well maybe i should forget about that little dream of a shohin.
Still curious though if somebody actually succeeded in air layering a JWP.
regards, Sunip Wink

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Re: Japanese White Pine

Post  bwaynef on Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:35 pm

Bonsai Today in an issue in the high 80's-90s (issue#, not year) had a JWP that was airlayered. It was old and massive and took several (5?) years to complete. I don't have any details beyond that, but if I remember I'll try to look thru them to see what's mentioned.

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Re: Japanese White Pine

Post  newzealandteatree on Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:19 pm

While I have not tried air-layering JWP, I have successfully air-layered JBP for many years. Will try to get some old pix.
CJ

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Re: Japanese White Pine

Post  Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:21 pm

newzealandteatree wrote:While I have not tried air-layering JWP, I have successfully air-layered JBP for many years. Will try to get some old pix.
CJ

Would be great to see. I have not seen it done yet with pines. Thanks.

Regards
Morten

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Re: Japanese White Pine

Post  newzealandteatree on Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:27 pm

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Re: Japanese White Pine

Post  Bob Pressler on Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:27 pm

I know that JBP can be airlayered. There's a bonsai grower in central CA that grows pines in the ground and he has been airlayering the top before he digs them. Maybe it only works on the younger material.

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Japanese White Pine

Post  sunip on Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:52 pm

Thanks all.
Hello Newzealandteatree-CJ
Nice to see an actual air-layer on pine.
-When you start the air-layer,
-when new shoots showing
-new shoots spreading
-or when they become hard?
Did you cover the needles to with plastic to get some humidity?
Did you have it in full sun?
JBP is considered to be easier then JWP.
The tree in question is not grafted to JBP by the way.
The part where i could do the cut is just above the scaled part,
so that would be easier i think.
Hello Bwaynef,
Since i have no access to the Bonsay Today issues, i would like to hear from you what is mentioned about JWP air-layer.
regards, Sunip Wink

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Re: Japanese White Pine

Post  newzealandteatree on Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:23 am

Sunip:

When started - Early Spring
When rooted - Summer
Full Sun.
No plastic cover over tree.
Special technique on the airlayer. I have posted this onto the old IBC years ago.
Basically horizontal cut follow by vertical cut. Lift bark and held in place by small pebbles.
Applied rooting paste around the upper cut. Wrapped with spagnum moss soak in seaweed
solution. Tied with clear plastic. Bottom as tight as possible to retain moisture. Top loosely
tied to allow water to get in.
Good luck with your JWP.

CJ

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Japanese White Pine

Post  sunip on Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:35 am

Hello Newzealandteatree,
Thanks for your information.
regards, Sunip Wink

sunip
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Julian Adams airlayers Zushio White Pine!

Post  Todd Ellis on Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:52 pm

Julian Adams of Adam's Bonsai, in Lynchburg, VA is a frequent "air layer-er" of Zushio White Pines. In fact, he probably has more Zushio Pines in his nursery, than the total of Zushio pines in the country (per Bill Valavanis) www.adamsbonsai.com. I have seen him remove airlayers with ample roots from Zushio. I believe he was able to do this within a growing season. I'm not sure how long it would take to layer a one inch branch.
I'm sure he would invite your questions and offer tips to perfomring this procedure.

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Japanese White Pine

Post  sunip on Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:07 pm

Todd Ellis wrote:Julian Adams of Adam's Bonsai, in Lynchburg, VA is a frequent "air layer-er" of Zushio White Pines. In fact, he probably has more Zushio Pines in his nursery, than the total of Zushio pines in the country (per Bill Valavanis) www.adamsbonsai.com. I have seen him remove airlayers with ample roots from Zushio. I believe he was able to do this within a growing season. I'm not sure how long it would take to layer a one inch branch.
I'm sure he would invite your questions and offer tips to perfomring this procedure.
Thanks Todd,
He seems to air-layer Zushio White Pines in late february(zone 6).
See if i can mail him, or is he on the IBC?
regards, Sunip Wink

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Re: Japanese White Pine

Post  Todd Ellis on Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:17 am

Here is Julian's email:
jra@adamsbonsai.com

I don't know if he is a memberof IBC or not.

Todd

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Japanese White Pine

Post  sunip on Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:08 am

Todd Ellis wrote:Here is Julian's email:
jra@adamsbonsai.com

I don't know if he is a memberof IBC or not.

Todd
Hello Todd,
Thanks, i did send him a mail.
regards, Sunip Wink

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Japanese White Pine

Post  sunip on Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:02 pm

Hello all,
Julian Adams was so nice to responded to my mail with the following answers, in short;
Air-layering JWP is in general difficult to impossible
Zuisho JWP is an exception it is easy to layer and cuttings are possible but with a much lower success rate.
He has no success with other five needle pine.
The method he uses is the ring method on usually 4-8 years old limb in late february-early march.
For rooting powder he uses Rootone on the clean upper part of the ring
The moss is not soaked in a seaweed solution like CJ mentioned.
The top foliage is watered most days.
Roots start to appear late July to early September.
As long there are 5-6 roots about 3 inches long before frost, the layer will survive.
He props the layer up with a tripod of stakes when it is potted and there are not enough roots to keep it upright.
The layer is (like a cutting) put under mist to keep it hydrated.
Do not let it dry out over winter.
In zone 7 it will survive the winter just sitting on the ground with other plants.
With many thanks to Julian Adams,
regards, Sunip;)

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Re: Japanese White Pine

Post  sunip on Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:44 pm

I found on another forum information about air-layering pine in general.
So it say's nothing about the pine species but used is the tourniquet method in early spring,
rooting takes 6 month's.
Sunip Wink

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Re: Japanese White Pine

Post  bwaynef on Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:30 pm

The tree I remembered being air-layered as JWP was in fact a Juniper of some sort. My apologies for the false hope.

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Re: Japanese White Pine

Post  sunip on Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:25 pm

Hello Bwaynef,
No apologies needed, thanks for looking for the Bonsai Today issue's.
Maybe i just try a tourniquet, see what happens.
Sunip Wink

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Re: Japanese White Pine

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