Any American Elm in the forum?

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Re: Any American Elm in the forum?

Post  dorothy7774 on Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:55 am

Russell Coker wrote:..

Glad to see some interest in this thread, I guess no one grows cedar elms.

..

Hey Russel,

just saw this thread. We have this Cedar Elm and an airlayer from it (Yes, they do have wings). The pics are from October 2009. I just transplanted the little airlayer a couple of weeks ago. I'll post new pics as soon as I can. It's repotting season down here..Wink










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Re: Any American Elm in the forum?

Post  Guest on Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:11 am

It looks as if American Elms behave in the same way as English Elm, in that any really rapid growth is supported by corky wings. I have noticed this with Field Maple(campestre) Too.

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Re: Any American Elm in the forum?

Post  Russell Coker on Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:19 am

Hey Dorothy!

Thanks so much. Where are your cedar elms from? There is a Florida population that is completely isolated from the main population. My big cedar elm (in the main forum) is from somewhere around Austin and does not have wings. I mentioned before that some do where they overlap with winged elms. The genetics are interesting. I remember staying with friends in Austin, and the elms in their area grew in a strange spiral form so they were useless as bonsai - no front!

Do you have any Florida (American) elms?

R

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Re: Any American Elm in the forum?

Post  dorothy7774 on Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:38 am

Russell Coker wrote:Hey Dorothy!

Thanks so much. Where are your cedar elms from? There is a Florida population that is completely isolated from the main population. My big cedar elm (in the main forum) is from somewhere around Austin and does not have wings. I mentioned before that some do where they overlap with winged elms. The genetics are interesting. I remember staying with friends in Austin, and the elms in their area grew in a strange spiral form so they were useless as bonsai - no front!

Do you have any Florida (American) elms?

R

Russel,

the Elm came from the Austin area Texas! It was a group of 5 or 6 elms that came to Florida. Ernie kept the one we airlayerd the top off. It grows very well down here. Yes, I do have a Florida Elm, you can see it here:

http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t2024-elmo-update?highlight=elmo

Other than that we have Winged elms and Chinese elms. Wished I found another "Elmo" though..

-dorothy

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Re: Any American Elm in the forum?

Post  Russell Coker on Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:13 pm

Well crap. I was hoping your cedar elms were from the Florida population. I wonder if anyone out there has one of these, here's a link to the counties where they grow - http://plants.usda.gov/java/county?state_name=Florida&statefips=12&symbol=ULCR.

R

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Re: Any American Elm in the forum?

Post  Randy_Davis on Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:43 pm

Russell Coker wrote:Well crap. I was hoping your cedar elms were from the Florida population. I wonder if anyone out there has one of these, here's a link to the counties where they grow - http://plants.usda.gov/java/county?state_name=Florida&statefips=12&symbol=ULCR.

R

Russell,

When I cliicked on that link it came up with "no data found". Here's a link from the Florida institute for systematic botany that has the counties listed as well.
http://www.florida.plantatlas.usf.edu/Plant.aspx?id=3853

If you click on the "view specimen details" link it will bring up a nice example of the foliage and branches.

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Re: Any American Elm in the forum?

Post  Russell Coker on Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:05 pm

Randy_Davis wrote:
Russell Coker wrote:Well crap. I was hoping your cedar elms were from the Florida population. I wonder if anyone out there has one of these, here's a link to the counties where they grow - http://plants.usda.gov/java/county?state_name=Florida&statefips=12&symbol=ULCR.

R

Russell,

When I cliicked on that link it came up with "no data found". Here's a link from the Florida institute for systematic botany that has the counties listed as well.
http://www.florida.plantatlas.usf.edu/Plant.aspx?id=3853

If you click on the "view specimen details" link it will bring up a nice example of the foliage and branches.

It did that to me too. I don't know why, but hit the "go" button on the upper left. It will pull up cedar elm (or whatever you enter) and show the states, click on the stae and it will show counties. USDA's site is easier and less busy than Florida's.

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Re: Any American Elm in the forum?

Post  Randy_Davis on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:31 pm

All,

I have not seen anyone mention Ulmus rubra (red or slippery elm) Anyone other than me playing with it?

Randy

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Re: Any American Elm in the forum?

Post  DougDT on Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:56 pm

I think this maybe an American Elm.
I picked it up at a club auction 5 or 6 years ago. The person who donated it was unsure of the species. She alway called it her Al Tarbell Elm because that was who she got it from.






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Re: Any American Elm in the forum?

Post  Russell Coker on Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:58 pm

DougDT wrote:I think this maybe an American Elm.

It's really hard to say, isn't it? The bark looks nothing like mine, but we can't go by that. Too many miles and genes between where these two came from to draw any real conclusions from that comparison.

Nice tree Doug!

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Re: Any American Elm in the forum?

Post  Guest on Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:06 pm

Hello Russ and all. Elms are notoriously difficult to identify and we have the same problem here too. Elms can vary hugely from hedge to hedge, let alone county to county. Elms growing next to each other can have different bark and leaf shape.

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Re: Any American Elm in the forum?

Post  Russell Coker on Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:57 pm

Randy_Davis wrote:All,

I have not seen anyone mention Ulmus rubra (red or slippery elm) Anyone other than me playing with it?

Randy

Here's an interesting comparison... http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook/trees/ulru.html

The USDA site shows it growing in the county east of me. I'm going to ask some forestry friends where and do some looking. Pretty elm.

Will, yes, those variations in elms and oaks can be maddening!

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Re: Any American Elm in the forum?

Post  Randy_Davis on Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:25 pm

Russell Coker wrote: Here's an interesting comparison... http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook/trees/ulru.html

The USDA site shows it growing in the county east of me. I'm going to ask some forestry friends where and do some looking. Pretty elm.

Will, yes, those variations in elms and oaks can be maddening!

Russell,

As the link stated, stay in rough higher terrain and you'll most likely find U. rubra. It grows here on my rough gravelly hilltop and doesn't seem to like the lower wetter bottomlands of my property. Once you identify it, it will be easy to see the differences between it and U. americana. It's a smaller tree often tall and lanky when growing in wooded areas and the mature bark is less furrowed than the american elm. Here in Kentucky, the red elm is just starting to flower and the flower caylex is red in color rather than green like U. americana. On trees growing in rough soil the 2 year old branches are rather stiff and rather brownish black (much like Celtis o.)
I agree elms can be difficult to ID but thank goodness there are not to many american species from which to choose. Most of the "vars." like U. americana var. floridana are now considred synonyms of U. americana. I have been trying to get some good examples of each species done in bonsai for the ABS reference library for a while now and they are hard to get.

Good luck hunting!
Randy





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Re: Any American Elm in the forum?

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