Carpinus Betulus - Update

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  marcus watts on Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:22 pm

hi,
looking at the tree with no leaves does it need 2 bottom right hand branches on top of each other? It makes that section of the tree look very full of twigs and no spaces - i would be inclined to remove the top one of the two if the current front is kept, or loose the lower one and turn the tree a little anticlockwise for a slightly new front.

losts of clip and grow technique will make much better looking branches than just wiring I think, and partial defoliating every year will build lots of inner ramification. Together this will end up bringing the leaves down in size, but again there is no real need to worry about leaf size just yet, there are severasl years of fine twig production to do first. Once there are 100 times more twigs the leaves will be much smaller anyway.

Great lower trunk, it will be a very nice tree in 8-10 years and will be fantastic with no leaves. Keep up with the defoliating though or all the leaves will end up on the end of the branches.

cheers Marcus

marcus watts
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  rolandp on Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:17 pm

Hi dear IBC member.

I rewired my Carpinus today and here is the result.

Before


After


The top will be of course shorter in the end.

Regards, Roland

rolandp
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  attila on Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:30 am

Robert Steven wrote:Nice tree Roland. But since it's growing so fast, why do you cut the apical meristerm and not let them grow to obtain the expected size for ideal ramification of deciduous tree ? And why do you wire all the single tiny branches ?

BTW, the best way to reduce leaves size is by forming the ramification structure with clip-and-grow technique because this will create more branch's sections. Ideal ramifidcation for deciduous tree is not one single line with right and left side branches like connifers...

i agree with Robert here, it is very common to see deciduous trees over wired and branches arranged like a conifer tree. Clip and grow gives more natural look and saves a lot of copper and fiddle work IMHO
Attila

attila
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  Andre Beaurain on Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:18 am

I for one, am flabbergasted in what you created in 3 years,
I think whatever you do in the next 3 years, with the help of this forum, is going to be mindblowing!!
I'm running to my trees as we speak....

Andre Beaurain
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  rolandp on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:52 am

attila wrote:
Robert Steven wrote:Nice tree Roland. But since it's growing so fast, why do you cut the apical meristerm and not let them grow to obtain the expected size for ideal ramification of deciduous tree ? And why do you wire all the single tiny branches ?

BTW, the best way to reduce leaves size is by forming the ramification structure with clip-and-grow technique because this will create more branch's sections. Ideal ramifidcation for deciduous tree is not one single line with right and left side branches like connifers...

i agree with Robert here, it is very common to see deciduous trees over wired and branches arranged like a conifer tree. Clip and grow gives more natural look and saves a lot of copper and fiddle work IMHO
Attila

Hi Attila.

Thanks for the reply and comment. I think this is an interesting point of view. Very Happy

The main reason that I don’t use only the clip and grow techniques and use a lot of wire in addition to cutting technique is that I like to create a branch structure that fits the overall look and feel of the tree. In other words I don’t like to have straight branches without movement, especially not on a tree which has not a straight formal trunk. With wiring of the branches it’s the easiest way to achieve this.

For instance, if you look at the first branch on the left side of the tree. Bcs. no wire was used in the first stage of development the marked area of the branch is very straight. In my eyes this is a week point of this design and I could avoid it if I would give the branch some movement with the wire last year. Its disturbing and I’m even thinking about developing this branch from scratch.



I like natural looking trees but I think, that at this stage of development, when I’m still developing the primary and secondary branches it is important to place the branches in the position which creates a quality branch structure. I believe a good branch structure needs branches with movement, each branch has to have the appropriate narrowing and they need to be placed in the exact position I like (from all views: from the side, from the front or from the top). If I use only clip and grow technique I may achieve this but not on the level of idealization of a deciduous tree from nature.

When observing deciduous trees in nature, how they grow, how they develop, I see that the branches at the bottom of the tree, that are the oldest, are almost horizontal. The higher I look at the tree the branches are getting more and more vertically. But all branches have up and down movement. Probably the reason is that in spring and summer the branches are growing towards the light and when they becoming bigger and stronger the weight and the natural influence (snow,...) is pressing them down again, in spring again they grow towards the sun and so on...conifers have naturaly a different growing habit as described and I don’t think that if the branches on a deciduous tree are ordered to achieve an image of idealization of a tree in nature, it directly means it looks like a conifer...I imagine a conifer style on this tree would look like this:



But this is just my point of view, explanation....I don’t believe in wrong and right philosophy...just different perspectives. Very Happy

Cheers, Roland

rolandp
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  Robert Steven on Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:40 pm

Hi Roland,

Nice structure, I like the movement. I also agree with your simulation to ilustrate the connifers character, but connifers character is not only on the branches, but the most crusial point is the apical demonant trunk and branch features. So the apex on your design is still connifers look with the single line apex, still apical dominant.

Mature deciduous tree will never have such apical dominant apex, but wide spread. It's not a matter of wright or wrong, but simply the plant physiology. So in my humble opinion, if you cut the apex a little bit and make the structure wider open, it will resemble better of a mature deciduous tree in nature.


Robert Steven
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  rolandp on Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:58 pm

Hi Robert.

I think you hit the bull’s eye with your apex comment. Very Happy At the moment it is definitely not a deciduous tree looking apex and it has to be developed in the direction you draw on your great virtual. I think your virtual shows better than all words where this tree will develop in the next stages.

Thanks a lot for the virtual, I really like it, actually I love it. Very Happy
Can I use your virtual on my blog? Of course I will write that you are the author of it.


regards, roland

rolandp
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  Robert Steven on Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:01 pm

Thanks Roland..ofcourse you can. Good luck buddy...

Robert Steven
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  rolandp on Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:18 pm

Robert Steven wrote:Thanks Roland..ofcourse you can. Good luck buddy...

Thanks cheers

rolandp
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  attila on Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:49 pm

Robert Steven wrote:Hi Roland,

Nice structure, I like the movement. I also agree with your simulation to ilustrate the connifers character, but connifers character is not only on the branches, but the most crusial point is the apical demonant trunk and branch features. So the apex on your design is still connifers look with the single line apex, still apical dominant.

Mature deciduous tree will never have such apical dominant apex, but wide spread. It's not a matter of wright or wrong, but simply the plant physiology. So in my humble opinion, if you cut the apex a little bit and make the structure wider open, it will resemble better of a mature deciduous tree in nature.


dear Roland

this what i wanted to express but Robert is much better at it ! he is good with words as well as trees cheers

Attila

attila
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  rolandp on Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:36 pm

attila wrote:
Robert Steven wrote:Hi Roland,

Nice structure, I like the movement. I also agree with your simulation to ilustrate the connifers character, but connifers character is not only on the branches, but the most crusial point is the apical demonant trunk and branch features. So the apex on your design is still connifers look with the single line apex, still apical dominant.

Mature deciduous tree will never have such apical dominant apex, but wide spread. It's not a matter of wright or wrong, but simply the plant physiology. So in my humble opinion, if you cut the apex a little bit and make the structure wider open, it will resemble better of a mature deciduous tree in nature.


dear Roland

this what i wanted to express but Robert is much better at it ! he is good with words as well as trees cheers

Attila

Dear Attila

I took your comment in a positive sense. Regarding Robers ability of expression I think he is much better then me as well Very Happy


Last edited by rolandp on Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:38 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Typing mistake)

rolandp
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  Herbert A on Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:59 pm

Hi Roland,
i like your tree. If this would be my tree i would beginn to work with the roots. It´s like airlayering. You can see at the pics.




ciao
Herbert Aigner

Herbert A
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  Robert Steven on Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:27 am

Thanks Attila, Roland... Embarassed Embarassed

Robert Steven
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  attila on Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:25 am

rolandp wrote:Hi Robert.

I think you hit the bull’s eye with your apex comment. Very Happy At the moment it is definitely not a deciduous tree looking apex and it has to be developed in the direction you draw on your great virtual. I think your virtual shows better than all words where this tree will develop in the next stages.

Thanks a lot for the virtual, I really like it, actually I love it. Very Happy
Can I use your virtual on my blog? Of course I will write that you are the author of it.


regards, roland

http://www.andyrutledge.com/book/contents/langofartistry.htm

this a good read about design
Attila

attila
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  Brett Summers on Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:36 pm

Nice work, I don't mind the straight section in the branch that worries you. In time I think it will blend well. Just don't try to pull it down anymore I reckon.
I also like the new height that Robert suggests. From here a nice broom silhouette should come easy. Just have to get those roots strong enough to hold the design to the ground Smile

Brett Summers
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  abcd on Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:14 am

In the future , carving dead wood between the branches on the right to delate the reverse taper,
[img][/img]

abcd
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  rolandp on Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:18 am

Dear IBC members.

The Carpinus received the third styling. There is one branch on the rights side of the top which is missing and will be developed this year and of course tons of additional small stuff, like the nebari improvement mentioned early in the post (thanks Herbert Very Happy ), but it is slowly developing:)



Cheers, Roland

rolandp
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  Lee Brindley on Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:58 am

Only just noticed this thread. Nice work and good result in an amazing time scale. This will be a very beautiful bonsai in a few years. I have access to a lot of European Beech of similar stock and only just collected the first one - I will hope to create something similar, hopefully.
Regards, Lee.

Lee Brindley
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  Guest on Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:44 pm

Walter Pall wrote:
Ravi Kiran wrote:
Third Pic: Good first styling but was it necessary to remove all the leaves??
Ravi

Funny Ravi, as nature does this here. Almost all trees which are not conifers don't have leaves in our world at this time of the year.

Roland, good start, I like it.

hehe shall i dare do this Very Happy.. it is also true that hornbeams (carpinus betulus) leaves a lot of its (dead) leaves on during autumn and winter (see thousands of examples in hedges), not all offcourse but many, if its not in a super windy area. Beech (fagus sylvatica) equally and even more so than carpinus betulus. Talking about the same geographic area (central europe).

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  Guest on Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:46 pm

rolandp wrote:Dear IBC members.

The Carpinus received the third styling. There is one branch on the rights side of the top which is missing and will be developed this year and of course tons of additional small stuff, like the nebari improvement mentioned early in the post (thanks Herbert Very Happy ), but it is slowly developing:)



Cheers, Roland

and Roland, yam yam gimme some !
very nice tree, i like it a lot, i even want it haha.
The first ever pictures you posted showed a minor inverse tapering, but the image we see now...well...
great job, very fun material carpinus betulus, love it

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  Pavel Slovák on Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:03 pm

Great development Roland.
I hope that the next photo development in the future.

Greetings Pavel

Pavel Slovák
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  hometeamrocker on Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:01 pm

Very nice work, very nice tree! I love hornbeams and have my eye on a few for spring collecting. Thanks for posting, keep up the good work.

hometeamrocker
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  rolandp on Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:38 am

Lee, Yves, Pavel and Hometeamrocker thanks for your kind comments:) im glad you like the progress of the tree.
There is definitely a lot of room for improvement, but its nice to get some positive feedback and encouraging word, thanks guys:)

I put together a summary of four photos which ware taken each year from 2010 until 2013.



Cheers, roland

rolandp
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  rolandp on Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:50 am

Dear IBC Members.

I like to share an update of the current image of the tree.



I think that next spring it is time to transplant the tree in a bonsai pot. Most probably i will plant it in this pot from John Pitt.



Hope you like it.

Cheers, Roland

rolandp
Member


Back to top Go down

pot for betukus

Post  abcd on Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:03 pm

A good choice" />

abcd
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Carpinus Betulus - Update

Post  Sponsored content Today at 10:49 am


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum