Tokonoma Scrolls

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Tokonoma Scrolls

Post  Randy_Davis on Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:18 pm

Does anybody know of a place in the US on the web where I can purchase a medium sized Tokonoma scroll at a reasonable price. I'm looking for one that has a waterfall or mountains as the main theme (no trees). Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
R

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Re: Tokonoma Scrolls

Post  Alan Walker on Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:26 pm

I'm don't know what you consider a "reasonable" price, but my friends, Yenchin & Julie Huang, have some very nice scrolls in sizes appropriate for bonsai display. You can find them at http://osiga.com/


Last edited by Alan Walker on Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:29 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Tokonoma Scrolls

Post  JimLewis on Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:27 pm

The scrolls he post are on the tacky side, but this guy may have something. http://www.orientaloutpost.com/asian-art.php

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Re: Tokonoma Scrolls

Post  Alan Walker on Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:32 pm

Little severe in the criticism, Jim, don't you think?
I would not recommend "tacky" scrolls.

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Re: Tokonoma Scrolls

Post  John Quinn on Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:44 am

I don't see any scrolls on Yenchin's site (there's a section that asks you to inquire), but I have seen some at his vendor area in the past and thought they were nice. Here's a pic of a scroll purchased from Osiga in this link...
http://www.yamakibonsai.org/Newsletter_pdfs.htm/February06.pdf

Here's another source:
http://www.susannebarrymorescrolls.com/index.php

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Re: Tokonoma Scrolls

Post  Randy_Davis on Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:52 am

Thanks for the valuable information gentlemen! John, looks like Susanne Barrymore is gonig to get some business comming her way.

R

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Re: Tokonoma Scrolls

Post  JimLewis on Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:02 pm

Alan Walker wrote:Little severe in the criticism, Jim, don't you think?
I would not recommend "tacky" scrolls.

You DON'T think those are tacky?

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Re: Tokonoma Scrolls

Post  Tony on Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:03 pm

John Quinn wrote:

Here's another source:
http://www.susannebarrymorescrolls.com/index.php

Wow John... these are truly fantastic Scrolls... looks like I will buy a couple.. I hope Susanne ships across the pond.

This being my favorite... anyone want to treat me for my birthday? bounce

http://www.susannebarrymorescrolls.com/item/Long_waterfall/345/c21

Tacky...huuuum... its a fine line with Scrolls. I am very picky and one mans Tack is another's 'art' (its that word again)

affraid

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Re: Tokonoma Scrolls

Post  John Quinn on Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:06 pm

JimLewis wrote:
Alan Walker wrote:Little severe in the criticism, Jim, don't you think?
I would not recommend "tacky" scrolls.

You DON'T think those are tacky?

Jim, what scrolls do you think are 'tacky"?? The ones on the site you posted?
I saw none on the Osiga site.

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Re: Tokonoma Scrolls

Post  JimLewis on Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:49 pm

The ones on the site you posted?

Absolutely.

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Re: Tokonoma Scrolls

Post  John Quinn on Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:46 am

JimLewis wrote:
The ones on the site you posted?

Absolutely.

I thought so. And I certainly agree. It appears that Alan misinterpreted your remarks in thinking you were speaking of the site he recommended...

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Re: Tokonoma Scrolls

Post  Alan Walker on Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:02 am

Sorry. That's exactly what I thought. I should have realized that Jim's post came too soon after mine to be referring to the Huang's scrolls.

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Re: Tokonoma Scrolls

Post  Chris Cochrane on Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:48 pm

Hi Randy... If you are particular about scrolls & plan purchase scrolls to accompany bonsai, you might do better than a mountain landscape scroll (even if illustrated without trees). The subject of a mountain (even a mythical landscape such as Mt. Horai or Mt. Shumi) narrows the "landscape" where the bonsai resides. At least in Keido practice (a discipline for display representative of tradition), but consistent with other informed choices such as the old Takagi Museum displays & Nippon Suiseki Association choices, a bonsai (or suiseki) in tokonoma or exhibit display flows toward an infinitely expansive mindscape (as though the back wall opens to an ever-expansive view) that should not be limited to a particular space where earth is delineated.

A tall, narrow waterfall, however, is traditionally the perfect choice for display with a full cascade bonsai-- both visually flowing in the same direction with the bonsai visually directed toward the waterfall which is visually directed away from the bonsai. I've no explanation for this common exception to displaying "a place located below the horizon" but imagine the resonant metaphor of casading for the tree & scroll subject trumps the normal restriction of an unbound, infinitely expansive scene.

Of course, it is okay to do your own thing. Lots of talented folks do, but it can appear undisciplined or even silly rather than creative. It changes the perception of bonsai from an iconic entry to a scene in your imagination to a close view within a limited scene. That is a huge distinction for intimate (alcove) or public (exhibit) display.

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Re: Tokonoma Scrolls

Post  Chris Cochrane on Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:22 pm

POSTSCRIPT re' exhibit display:
I suggested in the last post that exhibit display & intimate alcove display MUST be seen alike, but it is not entirely accurate &, perhaps, is more inaccurate than helpful. They are only seen alike to informed viewers of intimate alcove display.

Exhibits are created for the public which needn't appreciate nuances of display. Some public audiences do. Most public audiences should have the exhibitor's best effort at engaging them. Sometimes those efforts appear incongruous to those looking for subtlty. If it improves the general viewers experience, an exhibitor shouldn't worry much about subtlty or tradition. Subtlty is not only eschewed but mocked by choice of scrolls in some important bonsai exhibits including Nippon Bonsai Association's Taikanten.

While attending lessons on display in Japan, I was told by Uhaku Sudo that Keido practice is ONLY applicable to alcove (intimate) display. In Pennsylvania, however, the same question was asked to Mr. Sudo, and his translated response was that they are the same. For him, they perhaps are the same. Not every viewer (not every one viewer in hundreds) will bring Sudo's perspective to the exhibit display when standing before a bonsai or suiseki.

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Just an alternate site for scrolls...

Post  Kakejiku on Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:38 am

www.wallscroll.blogspot.com

If you want to ask questions about the core principles of scroll design, it is best to see things from the perspective of the Hyougushi.


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Re: Tokonoma Scrolls

Post  Hans van Meer. on Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:02 pm

Hi everybody,
here is a close op of the painting of a waterfall on a scroll that I sold some years ago. Quality ones in very good condition, like this one was, are very hard to find in small to mid size for a affordable price.



It is much easier to buy a scroll with out any fixed painting, but with only some small corner wires in witch you can frame a square shaped (Tanzaku) or rectangular shaped (Shikishi) painted board!
The Shikishi holder/scroll is wider and shorter than the much thinner and longer Shikishi Tanzaku holder/scroll is. The advantage of being able to change the painted boards at wile in to any theme or mood you are trying to creat is obvius. And these board paintings on paper or linen are much easier to come by at a reasonable price. And they are so much fun to collect! My wife and I have almost a hundred different ones by now, to fit any occasion! Smile Or you can paint one your self, like I some times (try) to do (bellow)! I even got several chop's/stamps custom made in Japan, with my name! The wonders of the WWW!




Cheers,
Hans van Meer.


Last edited by Hans van Meer. on Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Tokonoma Scrolls

Post  chris on Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:20 pm




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Re: Tokonoma Scrolls

Post  chris on Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:26 pm

Hi Hans, I love tea room scrolls and the size does not put me of using them in display, its the age and soul of these scrolls that does it for me, adding so much to the image.
Far be it for me to question you Hans but I think you have the inter changeable scrolls names the wrong way around

Regards and great respect to you Hans

Regards Chris

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Re: Tokonoma Scrolls

Post  Hans van Meer. on Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:45 pm

chris wrote:Hi Hans,
Far be it for me to question you Hans but I think you have the inter changeable scrolls names the wrong way around

Regards and great respect to you Hans

Regards Chris

NOB, I was just checking if you were paying attention!
Thanks Chris for the warning! It was a stupid mistake! But I am on strong medication you know!
And my real old scrolls are my favorites as well. The weathered patina and the linen that looks and feels like old parchment, you cant beat that!

Like this very old one that I used behind my Hawthorn at the Ginkgo 2005. It might not follow all the rules, but I loved the combination of the colors and texture of the bark and the scroll. It looked old, if you know what I mean? And the downward line of the top of the tree goes on in the line in the painting, leading your eyes down to the little alpine accent plant, that leads your eye back to the tree again Giving the whole image a triangular eye movement.
It seams so long ago this picture, but it has been only 5 years...strange?




CU later Chris!
Cheers,
Hans van Meer.

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Re: Tokonoma Scrolls

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