Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  fiona on Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:35 pm

I had a minor casualty in the gales that battered the bejaysus out of the west of Scotland last night. My literati Juniper (work in progress) got upended by mini-cyclone Senga before I had managed to get home from work to mount a rescue operation and as a result the lower branch has split a bit away from the main trunk.

I had previously been given the suggestion that Vet Wrap (self-adhering bandaging often used on horses) is very effective in covering a split while it "heals", and a fellow bonsaist had given me a roll of it which is as yet unused. The theory is that it is both breatheable and stretchy so doesn't cause problems with the tree's normal growth.

Has anyone ever used this stuff? And, does the tree actually "heal" or is it just a bit of callusing over? I am already reconciled to the fact that it will be considerably weaker in the future.

Alternative solutions also welcome.


The tree. Approx 30" tall. The split is at the junction of the lower trailing branch and the main trunk.



The split



Close-up of split




_________________
"Espouse elucidation"
_____________________________________

my website

fiona
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  Kev Bailey on Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:39 pm

I've used vet wrap as an alternative to raffia. It is difficult to get the same amount of tension that raffia would provide but vet wrap or raffia allow you to wire over and the wrap protects the bark. I'd recommend careful secure wiring after wrapping anyway, as you want absolutely no movement for six months (at least). Has anyone suggested unibond (or gorrila glue) in the gap first? It will always be a weak point even if the bark heals but this would help.

_________________
“It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change.” - Charles Darwin.

Kev Bailey
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  Bob Pressler on Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:46 pm

I recently had something similar happen and I used a small finishing nail through the branch into the trunk and it seems fine now 3 months later.

Bob Pressler
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  Mike Jones on Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:49 pm

I was actually going to say a stainless steel screw Fiona and then just seal around with wound sealant.

Mike

Mike Jones
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  Guest on Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:51 pm

I haven't used vet wrap before but it sounds like a good idea. I personally wouldnt use glue as it may get into the cambium and stop a good clean heal. Once your Wrap has done a job of healing the damage, I would screw the two together. Pre drill a hole to stop the wood from splitting. You can cut a flap of cambium, put the screw in flush with the wood and then push the flap over. Seal the cut and Bob's your uncle.


Last edited by will baddeley on Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:39 pm

I have used wire, Gorrila Glue and electrical tape to repair breaks. I really think the glue then wire worked best, because the glue expands to fill voids and excess can be trimmed off.
The wound will never be as strong as before the break and you will need to avoid any stress at all to the broken branch, wire to repair but not to bend, ever.

Billy M. Rhodes
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  GaryWood on Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:13 pm

Fiona, we all use the term "heal" it's seems like an appropriate analogy but trees don't heal, they callus and compartmentalize. The 'wood" is dead and will never knit together. I still use the word heal even though I know the difference but for reference there's a difference. Good suggestions from everyone. The key is close contact, undisturbed until enough callus and new wood has built at the junction. It will always be weak.
Wood

GaryWood
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  Dave Murphy on Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:14 pm

I have used vet wrap on 2 pines to assist with radical bending of branches. It worked quite well in protecting the bark/branch from undue trauma, but I found at removal that it left bits of itself among the fissures of the rough bark. As the trees are still in development, it wasn't a big deal to wait until the bits eventually disappeared. It probably won't be an issue for your juniper. For what it's worth, I like the idea of a small screw used to permanently pull the torn branch back to the trunk. That, along with the wrap, will really fix the branch in place and optimize the growth of new wood along the tear. Good luck.

Dave

Dave Murphy
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  EdMerc on Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:27 pm

Fiona,
I've never used VetWrap, but I have used 3M Transpore. It's a medical tape we use in the hospital I work at. Works fine, but can be a little messy to remove. Not too bad though.

As for the split itself, I would try and use glue to keep it from splitting any further.

I don't know about Gorilla Glue, but some wood glues, such as Titebond II, will actually create a strong point. Not a weak point. What I mean is that the glue will create a bond stronger than that of the surrounding wood. Something to consider.

Good luck,
Ed


Last edited by EdMerc on Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

EdMerc
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  Mike Jones on Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:42 pm

I can't help but agree with Will on the use of wood glues. A screw put in precisely the right spot will get that split tight and very flush, depending on the length of split, I may even consider using two spread at an equal distance. wound paste around the edges as I mentioned earlier and it will be almost as good as it was.

I personally would not put a wood glue or similar anywhere near it.

We have a beautiful Laburnum (full size) that split where the trunk split to two and wind caused a crack and tear at that point. Two very strong helpers pushed the broken side up tight, strapped it with nylon rope to hold while I drilled through the tree at the break area. I countersunk in two very hefty galvanized coach bolts, and cranked them up. We then removed the rope and with my fingers I filled the tiny remaining area with tree wound/grafting paste/sealant which I purchased from my local garden centre; it was similar to the consistency of putty.

Two years on it has sealed over, the bolts cannot be seen and the best bit it is alive and well. Not quite the same but the principal is.

Good luck Fiona with whatever route you select.

Mike

Mike Jones
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  JimLewis on Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:09 pm

I personally would not put a wood glue or similar anywhere near it.

Do you have a reason for that? Trees "heal" over breaks. The wood itself is dead. The break itself will not "mend" or "heal." The new plant tissue would simply encase the break and the glue, assuming you, as a good craftsman, take care not to leak glue everywhere.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  RHamers on Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:34 pm

some raffia or some rubbers with tirerips around. from the pictures it looks not too bad.
cheers

RHamers
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  Guest on Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:02 pm

Ok. lets go with the wood glue Jim. Nice and carefully so it only goes on the split wood and not the cambium. Squeeze the split together good and tight and any excess glue is going to coat the two cambium edges you want to heal together, creating a barrier that will not heal.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  Kev Bailey on Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:14 am

Careful application is obviously required Will.

_________________
“It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change.” - Charles Darwin.

Kev Bailey
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  JimLewis on Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:03 am

I do think that the cambium isn't anywhere near that delicate. Trees are very resilient and amazing things.

That said . . . Ms. Fiona, do you really need that branch? I don't think you do.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  Guest on Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:12 am

Kev Bailey wrote:Careful application is obviously required Will.

Yes Kev. Any two surfaces that are made for each other, have no room for anything else. Even the most conservative amount of glue will spread and seal off the cambium.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  Guest on Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:18 am

JimLewis wrote:I do think that the cambium isn't anywhere near that delicate. Trees are very resilient and amazing things.

That said . . . Ms. Fiona, do you really need that branch? I don't think you do.

I think Fiona's concern over this branch may be an indication. As literati, this hanging branch is really important in my opinion.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  Guest on Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:55 am

JimLewis wrote:I do think that the cambium isn't anywhere near that delicate. Trees are very resilient and amazing things.

That said . . . Ms. Fiona, do you really need that branch? I don't think you do.

I agree.
use screw and make a jin out of that branch and pull a new branch from the upper portion...then you'll have peace of mind in the future without the worry that is gonna break again.
it is still IMHO too crowded on the top for a literati.

...in cases like this I used non corroding screw (most nails and screws rust easily), wrap it with electrical tape, then wrap it with wire.

regards,
jun Smile

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  Guest on Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:10 am

Yes Jun, Stainless screws have already been mentioned. Pulling down a higher branch could be considered an option but they lack the power of this easily repairable branch. I have approach grafted many branches using the screw method and they can take re-shapeing and bending with no damage or breaking apart.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  Guest on Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:33 am

...gypsum screws, zinc coated screws, alloy nails and screws, among other non corrosive that can be used if stainless screw/nail is not available.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  Guest on Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:03 am

That is the most important branch on the tree for sure (in my opinion). I think that fastening the branch using a screw may be a slight problem, because junipers heals slowly. If the screw is not removed later on it will take a long time before a wound will heal over and cover it. Especially on a tree like this that will not need any significant growth.

I would use the glue solution and tighten it all up with raffia for a period of a year or so to protect the wound and secure the branch properly. Good luck and best health to the branch.

Regards
Morten

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  Kev Bailey on Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:19 am

Even if the carefully applied glue did accidentally spread to coat the edges of some of the cambium, the split should have (and looks like it did) follow the grain and will have left a sap line to supply the branch from below. Obviously it would be better and stronger to get the two edges to heal and "self graft", but there is no real strength there for several years, as it would be only the cambium layer and then a single year of annual ring growth, per year, holding it together.

If it was a complete detatchment, I wouldn't have held out much hope for it and would accept your view Will.

_________________
“It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change.” - Charles Darwin.

Kev Bailey
Admin


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  Guest on Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:02 pm

A well placed screw, underneath the branch would fix the branch firmly and would not interfere with the healing process of the split. I did suggest cutting a flap that would hide the screw, but even if you didn't, the curve under a branch will hide the screw. I imagine there was a weak spot just above this branch (judging by the deadwood) anyway and glue is only good if the surfaces you are joining are strong.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  JimLewis on Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:57 pm

That is the most important branch on the tree for sure (in my opinion).

Interesting, Morton. Why do you say that?

To me, it dangles down there like a useless appendix and interrupts the nice movement in the trunk itself. I suppose it could become (but would not if this tree were mine) a new "apex" or end branch.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  Guest on Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:39 pm

The trunk gives an impression of age and a fight for survival. Remove this older looking branch and you end up with tiny young branches. I recall Hans Vleugels tree that Mario Komsta refined, going through a similar discussion. Remove the branch and remove the struggle

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Vet Wrap - has anyone used it on trees?

Post  Sponsored content Today at 8:28 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum