Feeding in ground pine material

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Feeding in ground pine material

Post  Neil Jaeger on Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:49 pm

I have been reading a lot on "superfeeding" pre bonsai evergreen material and most of what i find is only material in training pots of sorts. I see a lot of posts on this forum that are of smaller material and the advise is to put the tree in the ground for a few years. Why is the advise to put the tree in the ground and not in a training pot with good drainage so you can feed the tree and get more air to the roots? I understand putting the tree in the ground is alot less work, especially for those with alot of trees. I don't have alot of trees and have a bunch of prebonsai that needs to be bulked up. My main question is there a good way to feed trees that are in the ground instead of the extra money of training pots? And if so, does anybody have any results of feeding trees in training pots, as opposed to trees in the ground? Any advise will be greatly appreciated and if it matters the trees im trying to beef up are Japanese White Pine, Common Juniper, Ponderosa Pine.

Neil

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Feeding In-ground Trees

Post  bonsaisr on Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:33 pm

There are three possible reasons for planting a pre-bonsai in an oversize training pot for superfeeding, rather than putting it in the ground:
1. The tree is not hardy in your location, or the climate is otherwise unsuitable.
2. The owner lives in an apartment.
3. The tree would be endangered by a local insect or disease.
Otherwise, if you have a tree that needs to be grown up, it is probably better to put it in the ground for a few years. The site has to be well drained, with the appropriate amount of sun. Of course you would first amend the soil with compost or other organic matter, and give the tree plenty of water & fertilizer. Watch for insects & spray only when necessary. If you are leaving the tree for more than one year, each spring dig it up, prune the roots lightly, & turn it around.
In many cases, if the tree is of borderline hardiness, it will do fine if you put a rose cone over it for the winter.
In your case, I don't think Japanese white pine is hardy in Buffalo. It is a little delicate, so I would grow that one on in a pot. The other two will probably respond to being planted out in the ground.
Iris

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Re: Feeding in ground pine material

Post  Dave Murphy on Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:17 pm

Iris, Japanese White Pine is actually very hardy- most sources have it rated to USDA zone 4. It would do fine in Buffalo.

Dave

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Re: Feeding in ground pine material

Post  Neil Jaeger on Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:36 pm

Iris again thank you so much for your insite. Unfortunatly we did just move into an appartment but i have family about a mile from where we are that is where i have about 20 trees already in the ground. Is it a good idea to use the cakes around the ones in the ground? I think i might try the training pot for the JWP so i can keep a better eye on it.

Dave thanks for your input.

Neil

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Re: Feeding in ground pine material

Post  Alain Bertrand on Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:38 pm

BTW, the importance of feeding trees in the ground is usually over-estimated. For most soils, the quantity of nutriments is not the limiting factor of tree growth. Amending the soil to get a good soil structure is generally more important.

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Re: Feeding in ground pine material

Post  kingbean on Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:18 pm

I have quite a few trees in the ground, one of which is a black pine.
I use maxicrop and foliar feed but I prepped the the ground first by adding sand and grit to the soil.

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Feeding In-ground Trees

Post  bonsaisr on Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:00 pm

Neil Jaeger wrote:Is it a good idea to use the cakes around the ones in the ground? Neil
If there are dogs or any wildlife around, the cakes will be gone in no time. If not, you are just wasting money. For most of your trees, use a slow-release balanced fertilizer, like Osmocote. Many of the garden fertilizers are now a slow-release type. For the pines, use an acid-lover, holly-azalea type. Read the fertilizer article at EvergreenGardenworks.
WARNING: Do not use the "organic" garden fertilizers with bone-meal & blood-meal if you have a dog or carnivorous wildlife, like skunks. They will eat the stuff before you are through spreading it on the garden.
Neil Jaeger wrote:
I think i might try the training pot for the JWP so i can keep a better eye on it.
Neil
Exactly what I had in mind.
Iris

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Re: Feeding in ground pine material

Post  Bob Pressler on Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:05 am

Alain Bertrand wrote:BTW, the importance of feeding trees in the ground is usually over-estimated. For most soils, the quantity of nutriments is not the limiting factor of tree growth. Amending the soil to get a good soil structure is generally more important.

+1

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Re: Feeding in ground pine material

Post  Guest on Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:17 am

Advantages of training a tree planted in the ground.

First of all, there also is work to do when growing a tree in the ground. Feeding, watering i.e.
The purpose is to let the roots grow longer, speeding up growth, fattening the trunk in connection with letting a leading branch or top grow freely. This is the great advantage, and will not be achieved in a pot. Every three years the tree in the ground must be taken up and root pruned to keep the root ball from being too large.

A raised growing bed can be very suitable for this, and doesn't need to be very difficult to nurse, if someone wishes to grow bonsai material this way. I have raised a few trees ready to put in pot today, and continue training. It works.

But free growth in the ground is far better than a pot that not let roots grow freely, specially horizontally. Growth slows much when the roots reaches the pot and need to bend. That slows down growth considerably and the development of the tree.

Regards
Morten



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Re: Feeding in ground pine material

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:28 am

Before planting in the ground, you can place the tree into a plastic rice strainer and then into the ground or a large pot. Keeps the root core tight and allows you to lift easily.

Or you can place a tree in a plastic rice strainer, and then into another larger rice strainer filled with coarse soil.This will also allow rapid growth and keep the root core tight.

A board or tile placed under a tree in the ground will force the roots to grow horizontally as well.

A friend of mine used to fill a 2 foot [ 61 cm ] deep trench with coarse gravel and then put the tree into that. Will produce monsters in a short time.

Factor in that I live in the Caribbean.
Khaimraj

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Re: Feeding in ground pine material

Post  Neil Jaeger on Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:30 pm

Mortem, thank you very much for the added advise about the raised bed.

Khaimraj, your idea about the rice strainer or colander as us northerners' say Very Happy is a great idea as ive been reading about using these when training trees in the ground and above the ground. Plus if the tree is small like mine Sad you can get 2 differnt sizes of strainers so when you see the roots poking through the smaller size strainer you can put the tree in a larger one. Also the tile idea is great i will try that as soon as the ground thaws. We have about 1 1/2 feet of snow right now.

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Re: Feeding in ground pine material

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:30 pm

Chuckle, Neil,

we also use the word colander. Note that information comes from my friend and Bonsai Today.
Best to you.
Khaimraj

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Feeding in ground pine material

Post  sunip on Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:10 pm

Hy Neil.
The suggestion of Kaimraj is a good one, i can state that.
In Japan thei work with those for shohin and for the bigger ones thei use the raised bed technique.
I use plastic pond baskets also in the ground, thei come in many sizes,
You get more roots, and in the winter you can easely take them out if needed.
Putting a smaller basket in a bigger one is also a good one.
Regards, Sunip Wink

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Re: Feeding in ground pine material

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