Hyuga-suna ???

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Hyuga-suna ???

Post  Toche on Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:05 pm

Hello all, Smile

Would I like to know if somebody knows this substrate.
It’s Hyuga-suna.
Whit which tree do you use it ?
What are his qualities ?

Thank you for your answers. Wink
Best regards.

Michel





Toche
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Re: Hyuga-suna ???

Post  GaryWood on Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:29 pm

Hi Michel, I use it and I have clients that use it also. It's Pumice, volcanic origin, and mixed with akadama and or lava rock. In the US we have pumice, it is white so some object to the color in the mix. Hyuga tends to be tan and grey. Either pumice or hyuga are excellent soil additives for aeration and water retention.
Wood

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Re: Hyuga-suna ???

Post  Toche on Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:45 pm

Hi Gary,

Thank you very much for this answer. Wink
A friend had recommended to use mixed with Kanuma for my satsuki.

Toche
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Re: Hyuga-suna ???

Post  Russell Coker on Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:19 am

Toche wrote:Hi Gary,

Thank you very much for this answer. Wink
A friend had recommended to use mixed with Kanuma for my satsuki.

Why? In Kanuma we never used anything but straight Kanuma for our satsuki, and added nothing to it.

R

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Re: Hyuga-suna ???

Post  Toche on Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:13 am

Hi Russell,

Because in Belgium, It freezes and thaws during more or less four months and the kanuma becomes less and less compact.
It is raining a lot and Kanuma becomes the mud, with Hyuga-suna, the substrate stays airy à longer time.

Toche
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Re: Hyuga-suna ???

Post  Russell Coker on Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:10 pm

Hi Michel,

I'll take your word for it, but the winter you describe sounds just like Kanuma's winter.

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Re: Hyuga-suna ???

Post  JimLewis on Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:26 pm

I must ask:

In either Belgium or in the USA are there truly no legitimate substitutes for buying Japanese dirt?

Or are there just a bunch of Japanese merchants somewhere laughing their heads off?

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Hyuga-suna ???

Post  GaryWood on Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:37 pm

Jim, why must you ask? Michel asked if anyone had experience with it and got answers. Why do you care?
Wood

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Re: Hyuga-suna ???

Post  JimLewis on Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:37 pm

Well, I guess I ask because unless there is a good (and real!) horticultural reason for using these expensive kinds of dirt, I might want to encourage people -- especially impoverished newcomers to the art -- to find domestic alternatives. Bonsai "stuff" with Kanji scrawled over the containers tends to be very expensive and, I've found in over 40 years at this sport, no better than -- and sometimes worse than (cut paste for example) -- domestic equivalents.

And why, I might ask, do you care why I asked?

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Hyuga-suna ???

Post  Dave Martin on Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:02 pm

I guess the reason Mr. Lewis asked the question is for the same reason a visiting Japanese master asked, "Why do you use Akadama in Europe? It is not soil from your country, weather conditions are different from Japan so why use it?".

A good friend of mine who has been practicing bonsai for over 25 years asks, "What did we do before all these Japanese substrates were available?". The trees grew just as well using grits etc which were commonly available, that is until we were told that this or that Japanese growing medium was THE only medium to grow our bonsai in.

Why do we transport bags of a foreign medium thousands of miles around the world, I suggest because of excellent advertising and money earning potential.....
My theory is that may be it assists with landfill problems, as well as being a nice little earner.

There are alternatives available in the U.S, UK and Europe to all of these 'traveled' mediums, perhaps, with global warming and the need for more eco friendly products we should seek them out?.

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Re: Hyuga-suna ???

Post  Russell Coker on Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:07 pm

I think Jim's questions are legitimate ones, and this is as good place as any to ask them. Personally, I've never seen anything here that comes close to either Akadama or Kanuma soil. That's not an endorsement, just MY answer to Jim's first question. As for the second question, from what I see on ebay, the large bags of akadama seem to be packaged for the Japanese market. It's someone here who is doing the importing and reselling, either the whole bag or broken down into the gallon ziplock size bags. I don't think the Japanese merchants care if we buy and use their soil or not.

I think for the benefit of beginners here I'd like to take it a step further. Like I mentioned earlier, in Kanuma we potted all satsuki (young, old, big, little, expensive, cheap) in straight Kanuma soil, but I know that other growers did mix other components into their soil. We then covered the surface with a thin layer of dried "mountain moss" that had been soaked in water for several days. Milled or chopped sphagnum works just as well and it's what I use here on just about everything I repot (I don't have any conifers). I use a mix of red lava, turface and decomposed pine bark as my basic soil mix, adjusting components as I see fit for specific plants. I've never bought or tested Kanuma soil or akadama here, I just haven't seen the need. I have friends that use Kanuma soil for their satsuki and I can't tell the difference. I'm not telling you not to buy these imported soils, I'm just saying that I don't.

R

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Re: Hyuga-suna ???

Post  JimLewis on Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:40 pm

I don't think the Japanese merchants care if we buy and use their soil or not.

I'm sure they don't. 'twas just a means of indicating that I suspect that the primary beneficiaries of "furriner's" use of these exotic dirts are the merchants who peddle them.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Hyuga-suna ???

Post  Russell Coker on Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:26 pm

Yes, my point too!

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Re: Hyuga-suna ???

Post  FRK on Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:04 pm

Jim,
As my soils professor told us, it is soil, dirt is found under your finger nails.
Frank

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Re: Hyuga-suna ???

Post  JimLewis on Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:31 pm

FRK wrote:Jim,
As my soils professor told us, it is soil, dirt is found under your finger nails.
Frank

Um . . . not if your nails are soiled.

And as MY geology professor used to (try to) tell the soil scientists in the Department of Earth Sciences, all dirt used to be rock (which isn't true, of course).

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Hyuga-suna ???

Post  FRK on Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:15 pm

JimLewis wrote:
FRK wrote:Jim,
As my soils professor told us, it is soil, dirt is found under your finger nails.
Frank

Um . . . not if your nails are soiled.

And as MY geology professor used to (try to) tell the soil scientists in the Department of Earth Sciences, all dirt used to be rock (which isn't true, of course).

But soil sounds so much better, dirt sounds so, dirty.
From the dictionary, any foul or filthy substance, as mud, grime, dust, or excrement.

FRK
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