Lipstick tree

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Lipstick tree

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:47 am

Hi IBC,
I am not sure if there is other lipstick tree-"Bixa orellana" out there being used for bonsai. If there is I hope we I can see the photo. Anyway, this tree is a result of one of my experiments on looking for other tropical trees for bonsai purposes and I'm making some progress, not just on this specie.
I managed to reduced leaf size to about 1 1/2 inch in diameter from around 6 inch, but not totally all leaves yet. The tree also back buds easily. I am hoping to have the lipstick fruit within this year. branching are not well arranged yet.

Oh, Khaimraj! this one is definitely from seed.





regards,
jun
Smile

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Lipstick tree

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:38 am

Hello Jun. How long have you been growing this one? A lot of these species are completely new to me so thanks for posting. Why Lipstick tree?

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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:51 am

Hi Will!
Thanks!
This one is 3 year old plus. you can google the specie and see more details on why it's called lipstick tree. any way, the tree is fruit bearing and produced small fruits with seeds used for various medicinal, cosmetic and home cooking use. It got the name "lipstick" because the seeds and fruit got that red lipstick coloration.
Very nice fruits in cluster form.
If there is no other bonsai tree of this specie, the tree I got would be the pioneer. that is why most people into bonsai are not familiar with it.

regards,
jun
Smile

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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:55 am

Fascinating Jun,

we call it - rucu, and use it to colour pumpkin paste to make fake ketchup, also to colour food in cooking.
I used to have a shrub out on some cocoa land I have high in the central range, but it passed away.

Never would have thought about using it for Bonsai.
Keep us posted please. Excellent work !!
Khaimraj

Images for anyone wanting to see.

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1T4TSHB_en___TT342&q=annatto+bixa+orellana&revid=135573145&wrapid=tlif12947501253651&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=897&bih=361

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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  RichLewis on Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:07 pm

Now that's something you don't see every day..

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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:20 pm

Thank you Rich!

regards,
jun

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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:24 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Fascinating Jun,

we call it - rucu, and use it to colour pumpkin paste to make fake ketchup, also to colour food in cooking.
I used to have a shrub out on some cocoa land I have high in the central range, but it passed away.

Never would have thought about using it for Bonsai.
Keep us posted please. Excellent work !!
Khaimraj

Images for anyone wanting to see.

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1T4TSHB_en___TT342&q=annatto+bixa+orellana&revid=135573145&wrapid=tlif12947501253651&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=897&bih=361


Thanks!
We also used it to color meat dishes. also served as meat tenderizer.
...I have several more other species that you might be interested in...I post it soon.
Lipstick tree grows very fast too with full sun exposure.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:37 pm

Added on later - Jun I should apologize for encouraging you to display new finds, sorry my enthusiasm sometimes overrides my common sense.
Khaimraj Embarassed


Jun,

I am very happy to see you expanding the borders, and look forward to seeing the new children. The tropics have so many new undiscovered gems, it's exciting !!! ------- a brave new world.
Stay Well.
Khaimraj


Last edited by Khaimraj Seepersad on Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:28 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Poor judgement)

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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:13 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Jun,

I am very happy to see you expanding the borders, and look forward to seeing the new children. The tropics have so many new undiscovered gems, it's exciting !!! ------- a brave new world.
Stay Well.
Khaimraj

Hi Khaimraj,
main objective- to lessen the impact of over harvesting of known species for bonsai.
Which I am partly guilty of. my "redemption"...hehehe.

This one is one of my rare too. posted it before, just in case you missed it.


flowering for the 3rd time. fruits in a couple of days



regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:26 pm

It's attractive Jun,

but now you enter the other realm of having to identify it, need to some latin information.

ALAS Sad
Be careful, the more you exhibit new trees on-line, the greater the risk of re-newing more yamadori action. Which is why I don't show other than what is already known. The pioneer becomes the problem with regards to impulsive collecting being done by others.

When the information on Buttonwood filtered down to us, the tree was unknown, and as soon as it was identified, there was mass collecting. This resulted in having to watch, very large trees with exposed wood, die, one after the other. So I would pass by x or y's yard and see the skeletons pile up.
Today, very, very few have any buttonwoods left.
Plus they soon tired of treating the barewood and buttowood is not a naturally durable wood in our climate.

Fortunately, most of the collectors are too lazy to actually identify a tree and most are safe. Half the reason I keep folk out of my backyard.
[ on our side when identified, there is also a listing for where growing.]

What I can do with a seed/seedling in 4 or 5 years in my growing troughs, is not enough to stop the onslaught. So now I have to restrict information.

Much as I would love to see your new trees, perhaps it might be better to just say you have them and I applaud your efforts.
Sadly,
Khaimraj


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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:20 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:It's attractive Jun,

but now you enter the other realm of having to identify it, need to some latin information.

ALAS Sad
Be careful, the more you exhibit new trees on-line, the greater the risk of re-newing more yamadori action. Which is why I don't show other than what is already known. The pioneer becomes the problem with regards to impulsive collecting being done by others.

When the information on Buttonwood filtered down to us, the tree was unknown, and as soon as it was identified, there was mass collecting. This resulted in having to watch, very large trees with exposed wood, die, one after the other. So I would pass by x or y's yard and see the skeletons pile up.
Today, very, very few have any buttonwoods left.
Plus they soon tired of treating the barewood and buttowood is not a naturally durable wood in our climate.

Fortunately, most of the collectors are too lazy to actually identify a tree and most are safe. Half the reason I keep folk out of my backyard.
[ on our side when identified, there is also a listing for where growing.]

What I can do with a seed/seedling in 4 or 5 years in my growing troughs, is not enough to stop the onslaught. So now I have to restrict information.

Much as I would love to see your new trees, perhaps it might be better to just say you have them and I applaud your efforts.
Sadly,
Khaimraj


This one is a variety of callicarpa. like you said, I'll just say that I have successfully grown some other species. I have several very rare variety of this specie,
Got close to a dozen other species, but I guess people even here can't access the trees, Some "very old bonsai enthusiasts here and "botanical ëxperts'" failed to identify the two callicarpas I have when I first took them in their bonsai shows, just out of curiosity I asked them to Identify the tree for me . i have tried to ask some bonsai yamadori gatherer here to hunt for 3 species that I have shown them...with out telling them where I got it, two fruiting and one herb with minty leaves (no names, for you), and unluckily or luckily they come back empty handed for the species I asked.

So are you saying that we have enough species for bonsai? what happened to the new borders and undiscovered gems? What happened to the passion of knowing more?
Won't I be selfish if I didn't share what I found out?

regards,
jun santa

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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:46 pm

Hello again Jun. What do you mean when you say you have several very rare specie of this tree. Rare as bonsai or in the wild?

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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:17 pm

will baddeley wrote:Hello again Jun. What do you mean when you say you have several very rare specie of this tree. Rare as bonsai or in the wild?

Hi Will!

...both. I got trees that can be found only in a particular region of the country...some can be found only very near a river or wet areas (I'll post the specie for you..with Khaimraj permission of course hehe), others can be found only in a colder area or high up in the tropical mountain...like the callicarpa above,the story on how i got this tree is here in one of my first post in IBC, huge trunk like this won't grow with the girth it has in a humid low land. being tropical trees doesn't mean the trees will grow in the wild in every tropical areas.
the callicarpa above almost died a few months ago before I got the right soil combination and the proper sunlight exposure for the tree.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:28 pm

I think what Khaimraj was hinting at was, about raising the popularity of (in this case) an already rare species into the bonsai world?

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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:06 pm

Yes, Will,

you are absolutely correct. The Philippines like Jamaica has some great mountain heights, and can reach Tierra templada or Tierra Fria. Just in case you're not familiar with the terms -

[a] http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/tierra_templada
or
[b] http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Tierra_templada

Jamaica at the height of the blue mountains can experience frost, and the novelty used to be growing old fashioned strawberries.

So Jun has access to unusual trees.

I do dislike this cloak and daggar situation I have to maintain, but what can I do ?

Jun, afterall is said and down, it is your topic.
Khaimraj

* Now for some afternoon re-potting, tomorrow Mayaro and more concrete casting - ha hah!

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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:51 pm

very good info on the Tierra "tempura" templada Khaimraj. the trees growing in these areas of the tropics grows with a shorter trunk and got a nicer form than their cousins variety coming from the low lands. tooooo much info Khaimraj, I thought you care for the environment? I am not giving the location even to my friends here locally.now you are giving away the location on where to find rare varieties good for bonsai.

It's a sad day for me oh wise one.

regards,
jun Sad silent silent

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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:00 pm

Nice try Jun,

surely you jest .............

With at least 10 other of your countrymen on this list.
AND the size of the archipelago, [ apologies Jim L. it's wikipedia ]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_the_Philippines

300,000 km2

and I am giving away info - Laughing
Ho ho ho Khaimraj



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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:09 pm

Jun. I'm scratching my head a bit here.(no baldie jokes please). No seriously. In the past, you have denigrated the collectors of Pemphis, which according to you is now quite rare, but by your own admission, you are removing rare trees from your own surroundings?? I may have got this wrong but I have read the posts a few times and thats how it reads............. I am not trying to start a verbal attack by the way......

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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:54 pm

Jun and [Will since you are posting]

the problem with showing bonsai of an unknown type, is this.

[1] Most trees can be persuaded to grow at least a 3 inch [ 7.5 cm] trunk, so the research on a new tree deals more with branching and sub-branching.

[2] Upon collecting a new seedling, I take it to the state of being able to branch easily, say a 1 inch [2.5 cm ] trunk. Next the acid test - using a visual example of a 6 to 9 inch [15 to 23 cm ] Zelkova serrata as seen in the various books. If a tree at 6 to 9 inch [ 12 to 23 cm] can produce as many or close to as many branches/branchlets and retain a fine twiggyness, it is almost 100% able to make a good bonsai at any size.

[3] If it shows spareness closer to say a Japanese Quince you move up the size to 18 to 24 inches [46 to 61 cm ]
Any more sparse and you go to the 1m plus sizes.

Now in the wild, a tree may show none of these qualities - good example is the Fustic. Additionally, some trees have special needs and these also have to be mastered.

So if you show up with a beautiful bonsai of variety x, you immediately tell everyone, this one is workable and it starts the collecting.

Additionally, if you really want folk to collect a tree, show the flowers, it is how you truly identify a tree. This is from free information available on the Internet.
The tierra templado bit was to try and help Will gain an understanding of what he is looking at. These are basic Geography terms, used in our school system for Ordinary Level exams. Nothing special.
Khaimraj

Fustic is a weed tree, not rare.

Fustic example - passing the test about 32 cm high.




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lipstick tree

Post  moyogijohn on Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:08 am

JUN I like the trees and you say 3 years from seed!! They look like trees growing in the wild,,that is what makes them nice..another good job... take care john

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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Guest on Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:55 am

will baddeley wrote:Jun. I'm scratching my head a bit here.(no baldie jokes please). No seriously. In the past, you have denigrated the collectors of Pemphis, which according to you is now quite rare, but by your own admission, you are removing rare trees from your own surroundings?? I may have got this wrong but I have read the posts a few times and thats how it reads............. I am not trying to start a verbal attack by the way......

It's Ok Will, no offense taken.

I started a new thread to correct the impression between rare bonsai and endangered specie used in bonsai.




regards,
jun Smile


Last edited by jun on Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:31 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Guest on Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:08 am

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Nice try Jun,

surely you jest .............

With at least 10 other of your countrymen on this list.
AND the size of the archipelago, [ apologies Jim L. it's wikipedia ]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_the_Philippines

300,000 km2

and I am giving away info - Laughing
Ho ho ho Khaimraj





....And we only got more than a dozen areas in the Tierra templada regions.


regards,
jun Wink




Thank you John,

no secret...just huge pot and lot of sunshine guide the trees growth and design even at seedling stage.


regards,
jun
Smile

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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:37 am

Jun,

one for you to test. Don't just try to shrink a leaf, as you show in your palm. Try to get the tree to replace the large leaf with many smaller leaves. So your density of foliage and twigging increases.
Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Guest on Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:53 am

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Jun,

one for you to test. Don't just try to shrink a leaf, as you show in your palm. Try to get the tree to replace the large leaf with many smaller leaves. So your density of foliage and twigging increases.
Later.
Khaimraj

Noted!

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Re: Lipstick tree

Post  Ravi Kiran on Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:48 am

Nice tree Jun,

Glad you work with unusual trees as well... and I almost forgot, there is also a ficus species called Lipstick Ficus. Unlike the lipstick tree you have featured on this post, the ficus Virens (which is the botanical name) is called so because the young leaves are shaped like lips and have a pinkish colour.

Ravi

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Re: Lipstick tree

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